17 replies to this topic

[RommelMagic]

So recently I've started canning the extra wort after mashing for my starters. I would boil the leftover separately and then can it using quart sized mason jars and a pressure cooker. I've only used a couple so far however felt the need to boil them again. Anyone else feel this is paranoia?

[LBG Bill]

When I can starter wort, I simply boil the wort on the stove for 10 minutes or so and then ladle it to sanitized mason jars sitting in a pot of hot but not boiling water. I then cap and ring them, pull them out and sit them on a towel to cool and suck the lid in. I've only had 1 jar end up with an odd ring around the top of the wort using this method, which I attribute to the jar and not the process.I use this method because it is simple and doesn't require a pressure cooker. Some may not like it, but it works for me.I have never felt the urge to bring the wort up to a boil again before using it.

[davelew]

I think it's paranoia, but I was just as paranoid when I first started preserving wort. It's pretty hard to screw up the sanitation when canning with a pressure cooker. If you're worried, I'd just leave some jars at room temperature for a week or two, and see if they start to ferment.I don't even bother with a pressure cooker anymore, because I can only fit two mason jars in my cooker. Now, I do a boiling water bath in my HLT, where I can fit about 10 jars, and then I tyndallize the jars by boiling them again a day later. That way I don't need to make jars of starter wort every bath.

So recently I've started canning the extra wort after mashing for my starters. I would boil the leftover separately and then can it using quart sized mason jars and a pressure cooker. I've only used a couple so far however felt the need to boil them again. Anyone else feel this is paranoia?

[mista]

If you properly can with a pressure cooker, the starter wort will be perfectly safe. There is no need to re-boil. I usually sanitize the outside of the jars in my bucket of starsan to prevent any contamination.By boiling, you probably are more likely to contaminate due to the time needed for cooling.If you don't use a pressure cooker, you're playing with fire. It's entirely likely that you will never have a problem, but if you do, that problem is botulism...

[Lagerdemain]

Perhaps this is extreme, but to me just canning a few jars after a batch of beer would be a considerable waste of time. Instead, I take a day to specifically brew a large batch of double strength starter wort and can it. I usually wind up with about 50 or so quart jars of 1.080 SG starter wort. Works pretty well, and I don't have to get out the pressure cooker and mess with that every time I brew.

[MyaCullen]

Perhaps this is extreme, but to me just canning a few jars after a batch of beer would be a considerable waste of time. Instead, I take a day to specifically brew a large batch of double strength starter wort and can it. I usually wind up with about 50 or so quart jars of 1.080 SG starter wort. Works pretty well, and I don't have to get out the pressure cooker and mess with that every time I brew.

that's a lot of starters but hell that's probably a years worth of starter so that's cool. Do you just add the the quart to bottled water or boil and cool it?

[Lagerdemain]

that's a lot of starters but hell that's probably a years worth of starter so that's cool. Do you just add the the quart to bottled water or boil and cool it?

Well, I go through a lot of starter wort. That's due to a couple of factors. First, I don't reuse yeast cakes or sediment from batch to batch. I generate new starters from the dregs of previous starters and have found this works well from me, but does require an awful lot of starter wort. Second, I brew lagers pretty much exclusively, which require significantly greater amounts of yeast compared to ales of the same volume. Just the way it goes.I add my double-strength starter wort to boiled water (when I'm feeling energized) or to unboiled R/O water (when I'm not so energized). I haven't had any issues with contamination yet using either method.

[MyaCullen]

Well, I go through a lot of starter wort. That's due to a couple of factors. First, I don't reuse yeast cakes or sediment from batch to batch. I generate new starters from the dregs of previous starters and have found this works well from me, but does require an awful lot of starter wort. Second, I brew lagers pretty much exclusively, which require significantly greater amounts of yeast compared to ales of the same volume. Just the way it goes.I add my double-strength starter wort to boiled water (when I'm feeling energized) or to unboiled R/O water (when I'm not so energized). I haven't had any issues with contamination yet using either method.

Good info, thanks. Do you specifically save back a specific amount of the starter for the next starter or just what's left over after decanting and pitching.

[RommelMagic]

I figured I was just being paranoid.Thanks guys

[djinkc]

Boiling won't remove botulism toxins. Just saying.......

[Lagerdemain]

Good info, thanks. Do you specifically save back a specific amount of the starter for the next starter or just what's left over after decanting and pitching.

I just use the leftover foamy stuff in either my gallon starter jug or mason jar after I've swirled thoroughly. There always seems to be enough yeast cells to get a half gallon starter going, then I kick that up to a full gallon starter. I've had good luck with this method and I sure don't miss trying to capture and wash yeast.

[EWW]

I just use the leftover foamy stuff in either my gallon starter jug or mason jar after I've swirled thoroughly. There always seems to be enough yeast cells to get a half gallon starter going, then I kick that up to a full gallon starter. I've had good luck with this method and I sure don't miss trying to capture and wash yeast.

how many generations do you do with his method before pitching a fresh yeast ... just curious since it seems like you may be selecting for the yeast that doesn't floc as well?

[boo boo]

Boiling won't remove botulism toxins. Just saying.......

Like Mista was saying.... use a pressure cooker. The temperture of 15 psi pressurized wort boiling willbe high enough to kill off botulism spoors.I can a lot of meat and have done so for the past 30 years and only have been using a pressure cookerto do it with these past 5 years. Prevoiusly I had been using the water bath method. I consider myselflucky.If you don't feel the need to use the cooker, then why not just freeze the extra wort and reboil when youneed a starter wort.

[Lagerdemain]

how many generations do you do with his method before pitching a fresh yeast ... just curious since it seems like you may be selecting for the yeast that doesn't floc as well?

Actually, I'd suggest the opposite is true - these are the yeast cells that clung the most tenaciously to the jar, after all. In any case, I'm up to the sixth generation on the starters I have going now with no signs of contamination, mutation or other misbehavior. It is not uncommon for me to go up to as many as a dozen or more generations in this way, and I don't see any arbitrary threshold beyond which I won't go as long as the yeast seems healthy.

[pods8]

I pressure can and do not reboil, that would defeat the whole purpose of canning wort to me. I like to grab a jar, pour, and pitch yeast.When I need starters I'll usually whip up about 7 quarts (capacity of my cooker). I just plan for an extra 1.75gal of wort. Fill up the jars and pressure can them at 15psi for 15min on my HLT burner while I'm boiling my main beer. I've had starter wort sitting on the self for over 6mo+ in the past with out so much as a hint of mold, etc. You get the protein sediment in this route but I find as long as the starters have been sitting for a week or so it cakes out pretty well and if you pour slowly and only plan to use 4/5 of the volume in the jar you can leave the sediment behind. An extra step would be to boil the wort first to knock out the protein, then siphon into jars, and then pressure can. You get less sediment for sure but I'm fine with just assuming I'll get 4/5 volume out of the jar and scratch that part of the process.

[davelew]

Boiling won't remove botulism toxins. Just saying.......

I'd always heard that boiling was pretty effective at denaturing botulism toxins. It's the spores that stick around. With a pressure cooker, you destroy the toxins and the spores. Without a pressure cooker, you destroy the toxins, but the spores can potentially stic around. If you boil again a day later (a process called Tyndallizing), you can destroy all of the clostridium microbes without a pressure cooker, though.

[djinkc]

I'd always heard that boiling was pretty effective at denaturing botulism toxins. It's the spores that stick around. ...

I've posted this incorrectly before, toxins denature, spores can survive a boil. Guess it's a good thing I haven't started canning starters. Sorry for the misinformation.

[mista]

Another way to save a bit of yeast from a starter is to make it a bit larger than necessary. Before I crash cool to settle out the yeast, I pour some into a pint mason jar and save for my next starter.