Beer Judge discrepancies
#1
Posted 17 March 2010 - 09:00 PM
#2
Posted 18 March 2010 - 07:54 AM
#3
Posted 18 March 2010 - 07:56 AM
Take a look at the rank of the judges on the scoresheets. Every pairing should always have at least one BJCP accredited judge in the group, but may also contain an apprentice or novice that is non-BJCP but experienced. I have seen this before, and I feel that sometimes when a more experienced judge is in a group, it can intimidate another judge into changing their score to come much closer. We always discuss opinions and make sure we are within a few points, but some who question there ability may have been judging right, and caved to meet the more experienced. Position in a flight may have something to do with it too, if it is 7th out of 8, and there were a few great beers early, sometimes judges are searching for perfection to score well, and really search for off flavors that the first comp may not have picked up on. The last thing is I would retry your beer (if you have some left) and be completely neutral and nonbiased, and see if the off flavors they mentioned are present.All I can think is that the judges at the first were just common joes and the next grand master dragons (not many of the people check any of those boxes to let me know)
#4
Posted 18 March 2010 - 08:52 AM
Good point, I did drop them off at the same homebrew store, but i guess that would be the only constant.Something to keep in mind is that once you drop your homebrew off at the shipping company, you have no control over how the beer is handled/stored. That includes from the moment of shipping until the bottle arrives at the judge's table. Lots of unknowns along the way once the homebrew leaves your possession.
Good tips....I have retried the Porter and the Cali Common...the score sheets on the common basically said that the yeast made it taste like a Belgian with all the phenolics in there...my palate may not be as refined but I could not pick up anything that would resemble something I made with a Belgian/German yeast...I am going to submit the porter to a comp on the 27th...we'll see what that score sheet says...Take a look at the rank of the judges on the scoresheets. Every pairing should always have at least one BJCP accredited judge in the group, but may also contain an apprentice or novice that is non-BJCP but experienced. I have seen this before, and I feel that sometimes when a more experienced judge is in a group, it can intimidate another judge into changing their score to come much closer. We always discuss opinions and make sure we are within a few points, but some who question there ability may have been judging right, and caved to meet the more experienced. Position in a flight may have something to do with it too, if it is 7th out of 8, and there were a few great beers early, sometimes judges are searching for perfection to score well, and really search for off flavors that the first comp may not have picked up on. The last thing is I would retry your beer (if you have some left) and be completely neutral and nonbiased, and see if the off flavors they mentioned are present.
#5
Posted 18 March 2010 - 01:57 PM
#6
Posted 18 March 2010 - 02:12 PM
I was totally thinking this could have been a possibility...unless my taste buds are just useless.I agree with the above suggestions. Also entries can get mixed up. I've had score sheets that simply could not have been the beer I entered.
#7
Posted 18 March 2010 - 03:49 PM
This has happened to me before as well. I entered a maibock into last year's SA lomgshot and it scored a 13. I thought it was about a 35 beer. After reading the commemts of the off flavors and color (they said it wsas amber and not to style- while mine was really lightgold-gold) I knew it definitely was not mine. I had my 4 reserve bottles to taste from- and it was still killer a 35-40 beer easily, someone got a scoresheet that read "great beer! wrong category" I am sure. The irony was i judged that comp myself, (obviously not that cat) and it was extremely well organized, so I was very surprised when I saw the results. The largest part of the irony was we set the floor at 17 points at the start of the comp for the minimum score to be, and mine came back with a 13! 4 points below worst possible! Oh well, isolated incident- but it can happen with 670 entries.I agree with the above suggestions. Also entries can get mixed up. I've had score sheets that simply could not have been the beer I entered.
#8
Posted 18 March 2010 - 07:34 PM
#9
Posted 23 March 2010 - 06:49 PM
#10
Posted 24 March 2010 - 06:31 AM
So the organizers are telling the judges how to score beers?Accepted min is 13. Why be different?and FWIW I've gotten some pretty bad score sheets back that were out in left field. The guy's qualification: He's a professional brewer. Now most pro's know what they're doing. But not all are good judges. So take the proverbial grain of salt.... we set the floor at 17 points at the start of the comp for the minimum score to be, ...
Edited by Stout_fan, 24 March 2010 - 06:34 AM.
#11
Posted 24 March 2010 - 08:00 AM
Yeah I think this is perfectly acceptable though. I know the BJCP says all scores should be within 7 points of eachother as well, but most comps usually set a house rule of a maximum 5 point differential. Which I think is fine. Anything more than 3, and there is a disagreement at the quality of the decision. As far as the decision to set the floor at 17, there really is not too much difference as long as the beer is under 20. The organizer is a pretty great guy, and the idea is to not hurt anyone's feelings giving them the world's worst possible score. However with that being said, I judged a specialty made with only molasses as fermentables. It literally clumped out of the bottle, and looked like a cup of separated mud. I would have given that one a 2 if I could have. I like to use the score of 30 as my baseline. If the beer has any off flavors, it is just unfair to any others to score it over 30. Unless it is a minor hint of off flavor, and the rest of it is outstanding, then it should be below 30, how much is determined by the rest of the factors. Conversely, if a beer demonstartes no off flavors, then it should score a minimum of 30, now the factors of how close to stylistic perfection come in to play at how much over 30.So the organizers are telling the judges how to score beers?Accepted min is 13. Why be different?and FWIW I've gotten some pretty bad score sheets back that were out in left field. The guy's qualification: He's a professional brewer. Now most pro's know what they're doing. But not all are good judges. So take the proverbial grain of salt.
#12
Posted 24 March 2010 - 08:38 AM
#13
Posted 24 March 2010 - 08:51 AM
I agree. Commercial brewers may know a lot about beer, but in general I find them to be the poorest BJCP judges. They often have an idea of a style that's at odds with the BJCP definition. Whether the commercial brewer is right or wrong, we judge to BJCP standards, not theirs.and FWIW I've gotten some pretty bad score sheets back that were out in left field. The guy's qualification: He's a professional brewer. Now most pro's know what they're doing. But not all are good judges. So take the proverbial grain of salt.
#14
Posted 25 March 2010 - 07:00 AM
Amen brother!I agree. Commercial brewers may know a lot about beer, but in general I find them to be the poorest BJCP judges. They often have an idea of a style that's at odds with the BJCP definition. Whether the commercial brewer is right or wrong, we judge to BJCP standards, not theirs.
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