5 replies to this topic

[Meadmagick]

I have read the info about doing dry yeast hydration with GoFerm and then just pitching that directly in to the must after slowly introducing it to small amounts of must. I have also always done a yeast starter before I recently found out about Go Ferm. So I am doing an experiment as I like the process of interaction with the yeast a day or so before putting it into the must. I have looked for recipes online and come up with some averages which I applied to the starter I started last night. I have questions about the nutrients the yeast needs in a starter though. I will outline what I have done so far and then ask my question.I rehydrated my dry yeast according to instructions with Go Ferm. For 1, 5 gram packet of yeast, I added 6.25 grams of Go Ferm to 1/4 cup water (this was the recommended amount of water per packet, but it was kind of thick I did add a bit more water, 1/4 cup, before sprinkling the yeast into it.) While this was rehydrating I made a starter must with 6 cups boiled and cooled water and 3/4 cup honey which gave me a s.g of 1.044. After 20 minutes for the rehydration I added the starter must to the rehydrated yeast in equal ratio to the liquid it was in. Over the next couple of hours I continued to add a little more of the starter must to slowly acclimate the yeast. At this point it was time for bed and I had added about 3 cups of starter must to the yeast. First thing this morning I fed the yeast the remainder of the starter must and now the full 6 cups of starter must and the rehydrated yeast with Go Ferm are all mixed together and the total volume is just under 1/2 gallon. Now for my question. Everything I have read just says add "yeast nutrient" in various amounts to a starter recipe. I have also read not to add DAP at this early stage as the yeast get stressed by it. I am assuming that the Go Ferm is equivalent to "yeast Nutrient", so that is what the yeast has in the starter at this point. Now that it has been fermenting for almost 18 hours should I give it a small amount of Fermaid K and or DAP as well, or is this where I should adhere to the philosophy of "healthy and hungry" and just wait until they are in the must and then give the first feeding of Fermaid K and DAP according to the recommended NAS? I plan to pitch it into a mead must by this evening. I've been brewing mead for 10 years, but have just recently been educating myself about newer philosophies and products such as Nutrient addition schedule and products like go ferm, Fermaid k and DAP. Previously I had just used the generic "energizer and nutrient" without understanding what was in them or why to use them, but I've never had a bad batch or stuck ferment, so I just went with it! That is until I went into the local brew shop and they frowned at me when I asked for "nutrient and energizer". Now I am learning the "new stuff" and feel a bit the newbie all over again it's great! Thanks for any Feedback.

[zymot]

Dry yeast is cheap. If I thought I need more yeast, I would buy another packet. Compared to making a starter, GoFerm and nutrients are more economical, easier to use and less likely to have a problem.At least that is the way I look at it.zymot

[Wayne B]

Go-Ferm is a special Rehydration Nutrient, and it works wonders for yeast cells that are just coming out of hibernation. It contains trace vitamins and minerals that all yeast need, along with amino nitrogen necessary for cell wall development. It does not contain inorganic (ammonia based) nitrogen, which is harmful to yeast until they are fully rehydrated and in osmotic balance with their liquid environment. Interesting that you say your SNA recommends nutrients (assuming DAP too, right?) immediately at yeast pitch. All the Staggered Nutrient protocols that I'm familiar with (including Hightest's, which I've come to trust implicitly) include a feeding right at the end of lag, when you first start to see macroscopic signs of active fermentation. Go-Ferm only goes so far, and more nitrogen is needed in a big way when the yeast are in active aerobic phase and dividing to build colony cell count. However, immediately after rehydration is still a bit too early and that can put some stress on your yeast. You may want to re-read your SNA details a little more closely, and if they do unambiguously say feed immediately at yeast pitch, then I have to say that I disagree with that approach. And I agree with the other posters here - when using Active Dry Wine Yeast, there is almost never any benefit to making a starter. The only exception to that is when the must starts at a very high initial gravity - say over 1.130 or so. Then it can be beneficial to acclimate the yeast through several smaller dosings of must, before you pitch the whole shebang into the main batch.

[Meadmagick]

Go-Ferm is a special Rehydration Nutrient, and it works wonders for yeast cells that are just coming out of hibernation. It contains trace vitamins and minerals that all yeast need, along with amino nitrogen necessary for cell wall development. It does not contain inorganic (ammonia based) nitrogen, which is harmful to yeast until they are fully rehydrated and in osmotic balance with their liquid environment.

Thanks for the clarification here on Go ferm. It's helpful to really understand what it is doing.

Interesting that you say your SNA recommends nutrients (assuming DAP too, right?)immediately at yeast pitch. All the Staggered Nutrient protocols that I'm familiar with (including Hightest's, which I've come to trust implicitly) include a feeding right at the end of lag, when you first start to see macroscopic signs of active fermentation.

(assuming DAP too, right?) yes, DAP too.I should clarify on what I meant in my plans from the original post. Since I did rehydrate the Active Dry yeast with Go Ferm as instructions recommend and then with a starter of honey and water at a s.g. of 1.044 and fed that to the yeast over the course of 24 hours, I figured that that time frame included the lag phase and then some, so when I pitched the starter yeast into the main must batch, I figured the yeast would be ready for their first feeding that would normally happen after the lag phase.

Go-Ferm only goes so far, and more nitrogen is needed in a big way when the yeast are in active aerobic phase and dividing to build colony cell count. However, immediately after rehydration is still a bit too early and that can put some stress on your yeast. You may want to re-read your SNA details a little more closely, and if they do unambiguously say feed immediately at yeast pitch, then I have to say that I disagree with that approach. And I agree with the other posters here - when using Active Dry Wine Yeast, there is almost never any benefit to making a starter. The only exception to that is when the must starts at a very high initial gravity - say over 1.130 or so. Then it can be beneficial to acclimate the yeast through several smaller dosings of must, before you pitch the whole shebang into the main batch.

After your advice and others, (even though I used to always make a starter before the use of Go Ferm), I am taking all of your wonderful advice and letting go of making a starter. Which means that I will rehydrate according to Go Ferm instructions. My understanding of the process goes as follows, after 20 minutes of rehydration, acclimate my yeast a little at a time to the must by adding a small amount of must to the rehydrated yeast over 1/2 hour to hour, then pitch it into main must batch, give it 6-8 hours? for lag phase and then do the first feeding of SNA. Does this sound correct?

The only exception to that is when the must starts at a very high initial gravity - say over 1.130 or so. Then it can be beneficial to acclimate the yeast through several smaller dosings of must, before you pitch the whole shebang into the main batch.

When you say this do you mean - acclimate my yeast a little at a time to the must by adding a small amount of must to the rehydrated yeast over 1/2 hour to hour? Thanks again for everyone's help here to shift me out of my "old ways" and get with the best methods currently available. I really appreciate it!

[Wayne B]

Let me reply to your responses from the "bottom up!" I agree with your last statement - yes, for very high gravity musts, acclimate your yeast over the course of a few hours and add several small must additions at regular intervals during that time. Sort of a "staged starter" approach.But for "normal" gravity musts, you can pitch the slurry of water, Go-Ferm and rehydrated yeast directly into your bulk must. No acclimation is needed, as long as the temperature of your must is within 10 degrees C of the temperature of that rehydrated yeast slurry. Then you wait for signs of active fermentation (verifying that Lag is over), and toss in your first dose of regular yeast nutrients.

[Meadmagick]

Perfect thanks! I think I was making it much more complicated then I needed to by wanting to still make a starter! This is a good reminder to Keep it simple! Thanks again!