28 replies to this topic

[Dean Palmer]

I use both a filter and Campden (potassium metabisulfite) as each is for a different reason.The filter reduces chlorine, sediment, off flavor, odor, and some chemicals that may be present. Unfortunately it doesn't break down and remove the chloramines present in our water, so that is why we use the campden tablets. The filter I'm currently using is just an inline RV water filter I picked up at Walmart that has ratings the same as any other quality filtration solution would, and was only about $20 and can be used with the white RV water hose as needed.So, the decision is not one or the other, but what is needed for your local water situation.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

here is a question about both:do either of these (filtering or adding campden tablets) result in changes that affect mash chemistry?

[Stout_fan]

Zymot,Great info. Thanks. 2 questions.1. I understand that the metabisulfite only requires 5 minutes to react. How long did you wait until testing?2. Carbon filters absorb chlorine as a function of contact time. What was your flow rate through these?I have a Omni 2 stage filter attached top the side of the brew stand. When filling the HLT, I allow about 30 minutes to get the required mash water.So that's about 7 gallons; making it about .25 GPM flow rate. I also take the same time filtering the sparge water, another 8-9 gallons. I have never been judged as having choramines in my beer.3. Have you noticed any chloramines in your .25 (sink) and .75(brew stand) water sourced beers?

[zymot]

here is a question about both:do either of these (filtering or adding campden tablets) result in changes that affect mash chemistry?

Other than removing chlorine and chloramines, the campden tablets does not affect mash chemistry.Filtering can. Depends what is in your water to begin with and what your filter removes.When you are talking water and mash, most of the discussion seems to be focused on mash Ph. Since everybody's water is different and the grainbill in question can vary, the answers are difficult. As John Palmer said, it is like trying to solve three sides of a triangle.Style comes into play. Brewing a pilsner? Soft water = good, hard water = bad. Brewing an English IPA? Hard water = good, soft water = bad. That is a gross generalization to make a point.The water section of Palmer's of How To Brew is the best resource I know of to learn about water. If you are concerned about water, the book is worth it just for that section alone. Read it a couple times, follow the chart and then use the chart with your water report. If you have municiple water, you should be able to get a water report. If it is not online, call the city office.It is tempting to start mixung stuff in with your water. I have come to the conclusion that unless you KNOW what your are doing and have a specific plan, and your plan is based on research and understanding, do not do anything. You are more likely to mess it up than help. If your water tatstes good, do not mess with it.If you are worried about mash Ph, pick up some FiveStar 5.2 Ph buffer. That and get a copy of your water report and go to the Palmer book. (latest editon has a color chart on the back flap)During the glory days of the board of green, there was a great thread with John Palmer helping out:https://www.brewboar...showtopic=62869zymot

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Other than removing chlorine and chloramines, the campden tablets does not affect mash chemistry.Filtering can. Depends what is in your water to begin with and what your filter removes.When you are talking water and mash, most of the discussion seems to be focused on mash Ph. Since everybody's water is different and the grainbill in question can vary, the answers are difficult. As John Palmer said, it is like trying to solve three sides of a triangle.Style comes into play. Brewing a pilsner? Soft water = good, hard water = bad. Brewing an English IPA? Hard water = good, soft water = bad. That is a gross generalization to make a point.The water section of Palmer's of How To Brew is the best resource I know of to learn about water. If you are concerned about water, the book is worth it just for that section alone. Read it a couple times, follow the chart and then use the chart with your water report. If you have municiple water, you should be able to get a water report. If it is not online, call the city office.It is tempting to start mixung stuff in with your water. I have come to the conclusion that unless you KNOW what your are doing and have a specific plan, and your plan is based on research and understanding, do not do anything. You are more likely to mess it up than help. If your water tatstes good, do not mess with it.If you are worried about mash Ph, pick up some FiveStar 5.2 Ph buffer. That and get a copy of your water report and go to the Palmer book. (latest editon has a color chart on the back flap)During the glory days of the board of green, there was a great thread with John Palmer helping out:https://www.brewboar...showtopic=62869zymot

I'm aware of what I'm doing. I use Palmer's spreadsheet to estimate my additions but my water report doesn't factor in that I have been filtering my water. I think my water tastes good other than the chlorine (which seems to evaporate based on my glass of water in the fridge test).

[Stout_fan]

I do not know of any side effect of over using campden tablets some, say 1 tablet per 5 gallons. Use your best judgment.

One of the 'modifications' to base beer in the BJCP off taste panel is to add Campden tablets to the beer. I think our teacher did one tablet in a 6 pack of the dreaded yellow fizzy stuff. Can't remember the flavor it was supposed to reproduce. But it definitely was a chemical taste.Now some mazers are leaving Campden tablets out of their meads. In a very light beverage such as mead, it really shows up. I've had some done this way, and they do taste smoother. However, you do have a problem with aerobacter spoilage. In my latest meads I've dropped the level down to 3 tablets in 5 gallons. These sensitive folks claim they can still taste it at that reduced level. I probably should get a test kit so I can accurately determine the PPM of sulfites though.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

One of the 'modifications' to base beer in the BJCP off taste panel is to add Campden tablets to the beer. I think our teacher did one tablet in a 6 pack of the dreaded yellow fizzy stuff. Can't remember the flavor it was supposed to reproduce. But it definitely was a chemical taste.Now some mazers are leaving Campden tablets out of their meads. In a very light beverage such as mead, it really shows up. I've had some done this way, and they do taste smoother. However, you do have a problem with aerobacter spoilage. In my latest meads I've dropped the level down to 3 tablets in 5 gallons. These sensitive folks claim they can still taste it at that reduced level. I probably should get a test kit so I can accurately determine the PPM of sulfites though.

It sounds like you are talking about adding a lot of campden tablets for a small amount of liquid. Is that correct?

[zymot]

I'm aware of what I'm doing. I use Palmer's spreadsheet to estimate my additions but my water report doesn't factor in that I have been filtering my water. I think my water tastes good other than the chlorine (which seems to evaporate based on my glass of water in the fridge test).

I believe most of the economical or basic filters will not remove the chemicals that are the variables in the Palmer RA calculator. If you have a reverse osmosis filter, that is another story.If you want to know for sure, filter some water and send it off to Ward Labs for testing. I did that and did the W-6 household water test.If you want to go all out, send two samples. One before filtering and one after filtering. Then you can get an idea of what your filter does to your water.zymot

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

I believe most of the economical or basic filters will not remove the chemicals that are the variables in the Palmer RA calculator. If you have a reverse osmosis filter, that is another story.If you want to know for sure, filter some water and send it off to Ward Labs for testing. I did that and did the W-6 household water test.If you want to go all out, send two samples. One before filtering and one after filtering. Then you can get an idea of what your filter does to your water.zymot

yeah - my filter does very little I'm guessing. I could certainly be saving myself a lot of time if campden tablets or just letting the water sit out would do the job.