18 replies to this topic

[DubbelEntendre]

I was cleaning out the fridge and I found a vial of WLP001 with a "Best Before" date of Feb. 12 2008.It has been kept cold, not frozen, and sealed. I believe the best before dates just refer to the "pitchability" straight out of the vial. If I build up a starter with this, should I expect it to attenuate to its fullest potential, or am I looking at a sub-par attenuation?

[Jimmy James]

The only way to find out is to make up a starter and pitch that tube in. If it does take off I'd step it up one or two more times before pitching onto wort as you'll likely have a low cell count. Since I am only 15 minutes from my LHBS I'd probably dump that vile and buy a new one if I were in your situation, since stepping up a starter multiple times starts to consume as much in DME as a new vial.

[realbeerguy]

I always use a starter with liquid yeasts, & have used vials that have been much older than the one you have. You should be ok just stepping up once. I also use a stir plate for yeast growth.

[chuck_d]

February isn't old. I've used much older, definitely make a starter as has been suggested. Make a smaller than normal starter and then step up. Stirplates definitely help as you can cut your final starter volume way down for the same cell count.

[Jimmy James]

I am assuming beerguy and chuck read the expiration correct - 2008. That's over a year ago, provided that wasn't a typo. If you guys have had luck getting starters to go with vials that old then that's great news. I have noticed a drop in viability even a couple months after the "best before" date. Then again, I don't use a stir-plate and probably you'd only need to step it up once if at all using one due to much better oxygenation and growth.

[CaptRon]

Me and my buddy were arguing about the expiration dates on the vials. He thought it was ridiculous and just a way for them to get people to buy more (marketing ploy). His argument was "Dude, it's YEAST, it is in a sterile environment, and it should last forever in cold storage". I don't know if I buy that though as I know that it can become non-usable. Definitely an interesting topic

[DubbelEntendre]

2008 is correct, not a typo. Thus, my curiosity. I did just finish my stir plate and would definitely use it for making this starter. I'm half in the "its yeast it never expires camp" and half in the "its probably not as viable camp" it is living after all, and it doesn't live forever. But where do you draw the line?

[Jimmy James]

There's a difference between "alive" and "ready for brewing". Even if a good percentage of the cells are still technically alive after a long time they may not be in the best shape to fully do the job in your wort. I have my doubts about the cells remaining alive indefinitely in cold storage. In a vial at above freezing temps biochemical processes can still occur. It may just take one cell to get stressed and release some factor that initiates an apoptosis cascade that spreads slowly through the entire vial.

[chuck_d]

I am assuming beerguy and chuck read the expiration correct - 2008. That's over a year ago, provided that wasn't a typo.

I didn't read it correctly, I've done year+ old yeast though in starter and like 8 month old yeast I once pitched straight, it wasn't great but it was still decent enough beer for the time I had on hand. I really don't recommend that though. My advice is still to make a small starter and smell it, if it smells good then keep stepping it up until you have the proper pitching rate. I probably wouldn't reculture it though, I would get a fresh pitch since it's 001. I've started building a display of ingredients in my homebrewpub, which includes a vial of really old Cry Havoc. It's interesting if you just leave it out there you can see the really clear wort on top, a white viable yeast layer, and then on the bottom dark brown muck from the dead yeast. I thought it would be cool to have grains, yeast & hops just laying out for people to view & play with, but I haven't laid out any hops yet because I can't bring myself to sacrifice even '06 cascades yet in this time of scarcity. I have a feeling those will end up being what I put out though. I've got 4 ounces of barley malt that I forgot to label in a zip lock bag so people can just grab it and get an idea of what that looks, feels & smells like.

[Cliff Claven]

I have some saved yeast in the fridge older than that. I will make a starter when I use it.eta: I sure their sanitation is better than mine.

Edited by Cliff Claven, 17 April 2009 - 06:49 PM.

[Stout_fan]

What the expiration date means:If you have kept the vial refrigerated it will ferment 5 gal of 1.050 wort to completion.As it ages sterols are depleted, more cells die off and the yeast becomes less viable.The rate depends upon the strain, storage, and I'm sure a ton of other factors. Not the least of which is the phase of the moon.My Samiclaus clone used vials that were over a year old going into 1.160 wort (IIRC, it was high).But I made an 8l starter.So far it's working great.Make a proper sized starter, you'll be fine.

[Kansan]

I'd hate to waste a Saturday afternoon on such an old yeast. If you are just making a lawn mowing beer or feel like experimenting...-- and if it turns out better than expected then great. If brewing for competition or to impress your brewing buddies on your prowess then I would pass.

[MolBasser]

Make a starter and you're good to go.BrewBasser

[orudis]

Definitely plan on a long lag time for the starter to get going. Personally I would just use dry if possible or buy fresh if possible. Is it a seasonal or discontinued strain or something?

[DubbelEntendre]

Definitely plan on a long lag time for the starter to get going. Personally I would just use dry if possible or buy fresh if possible. Is it a seasonal or discontinued strain or something?

Its WLP001, but I would hate to waste the 7 bucks, or whatever the LHBS was charging at the time.

[orudis]

Its WLP001, but I would hate to waste the 7 bucks, or whatever the LHBS was charging at the time.

Man I would just pick up some US-05. Good luck!

[chuck_d]

Its WLP001, but I would hate to waste the 7 bucks, or whatever the LHBS was charging at the time.

Jimmy Jones had it right in the first reply. The only way to know is to do it. That's partly what starters are for.

Edited by chuck_d, 24 April 2009 - 12:29 PM.

[MolBasser]

Seriously, it will be no big deal. Make a starter and away you go.That is a really robust yeast right there......I sorta use it a lot... :smilielol:BrewBasser

[dagomike]

Yeah... well first, the shop should be selling it to you at a discount. If they're like most shops they participate in a program to send back old yeast for a refund anyway.So, yeah, it's fine. It's just lost a lot of viability and needs some TLC. Make up a small starter, like maybe 500 ml, then step it up to where you want to be for your beer.