36 replies to this topic

[Breakpoint]

yes - I was considering just taking the common dry stout recipe and replacing half or more of the RB with debittered black and seeing what happens.

yeah, that trip made me love stouts. i think cutting the RB back to like 5% or less of the recipe and adding a dark, but less astringent grain such as debitter black, is the way to go. i think the idea that RB is the signature grain of dry stouts has to led to some overuse in this style. it definitely belongs, but not necessarily in the quantities most recipes call for. i think a stout is on the list after a vienna lager, so sometime around march i should be getting to brewing one. if you get to it beforehand, i'd like to hear if you managed the creaminess with the subdued roastiness.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

So this is my first cut at the (5 gal) recipe:MALT:6lbs Maris Otter2lbs Flaked Barley0.3lbs Roasted Barley0.2lbs Coffee Malt0.5lbs Debittered BlackMash at 149F (maybe do extended 90 min mash??)HOPS:0.9oz German Magnum (60min)YEAST:open to suggestions from my available liquid strains or any dry strainEST SRM: 31EST OG: 1.045EST IBU: 37

[stellarbrew]

So this is my first cut at the (5 gal) recipe: MALT: 6lbs Maris Otter 2lbs Flaked Barley 0.3lbs Roasted Barley 0.2lbs Coffee Malt 0.5lbs Debittered Black Mash at 149F (maybe do extended 90 min mash??) HOPS: 0.9oz German Magnum (60min) YEAST: open to suggestions from my available liquid strains or any dry strain EST SRM: 31 EST OG: 1.045 EST IBU: 37

I think that recipe has a good chance to give you the results you are looking for. I think you are also on the right track doing a 90 minute mash, considering the low mash temperature and the large percentage of flaked barley.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Anyone have any thoughts on the right yeast for the job here? Out of my liquid strains only the 1056 (American) and 1318 (London Ale III) seem like they might be right. I could use Nottingham but I'd need to pick some up. I also have S-04 in the fridge. I wouldn't bother using US-05 b/c I could just use my 1056 that I already have.

[Humperdink]

Could we be on parallel roads with your extra smooth stout and my Indio Lager? Maybe the answer is the debittered black.

Or you could look at supplimenting the indio lager with sinamar.

I imagine using some lactose would soften the beer and give you that cream stout smoothness. I also like the idea of debittered malts.

This and nitro would be what I'd vote for. Sinamar here as well if you're trying to remove some harsh roast character. Only thing with the sinamar is it will give you next to no roast character so you'll want to use it as a suppliment to other roast grains.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Or you could look at supplimenting the indio lager with sinamar. This and nitro would be what I'd vote for. Sinamar here as well if you're trying to remove some harsh roast character. Only thing with the sinamar is it will give you next to no roast character so you'll want to use it as a suppliment to other roast grains.

I'm not trying to eliminate the roast - just reduce a little bit.

[siouxbrewer]

I prefer british strains for my stouts. I'd go with with the 1318. Recipe looks tasty

[Humperdink]

I'm not trying to eliminate the roast - just reduce a little bit.

hence the suppliment

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

hence the suppliment

maybe I'm not understanding what this product is - why would it be better here than debittered black malt?

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

I prefer british strains for my stouts. I'd go with with the 1318. Recipe looks tasty

since the gravity will be low to begin with and I'm not necessarily going for an all out dry stout this could work. I haven't actually had a beer that uses this strain yet though (although I've pitched it 2x already).

[Humperdink]

maybe I'm not understanding what this product is - why would it be better here than debittered black malt?

Sinamar is a debittered liquid extract from weyermann. I believe they use their carafa malts and debitter it in a proprietary process. It's processed from malt so it's still legal under the reinheitsgebot. I like it for schwartzbeers. I've used it before to make make a point to some of my GFs friends that drak beer doesn't necessarily mean bitter. I called it blacked out blonde or uncle tom for the less PC motivated. It was a blonde ale with some sinamar in it to make it as dark as a stout. With your eyes closed you would never be able to tell it was black.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Sinamar is a debittered liquid extract from weyermann. I believe they use their carafa malts and debitter it in a proprietary process. It's processed from malt so it's still legal under the reinheitsgebot. I like it for schwartzbeers. I've used it before to make make a point to some of my GFs friends that drak beer doesn't necessarily mean bitter. I called it blacked out blonde or uncle tom for the less PC motivated. It was a blonde ale with some sinamar in it to make it as dark as a stout. With your eyes closed you would never be able to tell it was black.

interesting stuff - I think you are right that it could be good for Ken's application but since I'm still looking to maintain some amount of roastiness the debittered black should do the trick.

[siouxbrewer]

since the gravity will be low to begin with and I'm not necessarily going for an all out dry stout this could work. I haven't actually had a beer that uses this strain yet though (although I've pitched it 2x already).

These were my thoughts as well. You may get too dry with 1056.

[earthtone]

Hey zim, just saw this thread. Why don't you try my dry stout recipe with chocolate malt subbed in for the RB? You could also use a little less and use debittered. That way your grainbill stays simple and you know the rest of the recipe works.Just my two cents.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Hey zim, just saw this thread. Why don't you try my dry stout recipe with chocolate malt subbed in for the RB? You could also use a little less and use debittered. That way your grainbill stays simple and you know the rest of the recipe works. Just my two cents.

no RB at all?? hmmmmm

[Breakpoint]

yeah, i'd have to say the signature grain for a stout is RB, so you take it out and you don't have a stout. to me, chocolate is the signature grain for a porter. those are just my opinions. the smooth stouts i was drinking in ireland still had the roastiness of RB, but it wasn't as astringent as most of the stouts available here in the states.here's kind of the recipe i'm throwing around in my head:6 lbs MO2 lbs Flaked Barley.5 lbs RB.5 lbs Debittered black maltmash around 150Fsomewhere around 10 AAU at 60 minBritish Ale yeast of some kindi probably won't be brewing this for a while, though. i might put it in the string of beers i'm gonna brew with VSS 1882.