36 replies to this topic

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

One thing I've noticed when it comes to the typical stout recipes around here is that they are either fairly complex (QS stout) or pretty roasty (my experience with a classic dry stout). I really like these beers but I'd like to make something super smooth with a pretty mild roastiness and nice even malty backbone. No hop aroma, just a touch of bitterness. I'm looking for something that one could drink all night and not grow tired of. What would be my best bet for achieving this?

[Big Nake]

Could we be on parallel roads with your extra smooth stout and my Indio Lager? Maybe the answer is the debittered black. I had mentioned this a number of times regarding other beers that have a dark color but don't really have overly-roasted or assertively bitter/coffee-like flavors. I'm not a stout-head, but what is typically used to darken a stout? Roasted barley? Chocolate? What if you subbed that out for debittered black? I placed an order yesterday for some base malt and I'm calling them back today to add a pound of debittered black to my order. Good luck.

[MakeMeHoppy]

I imagine using some lactose would soften the beer and give you that cream stout smoothness. I also like the idea of debittered malts.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

I imagine using some lactose would soften the beer and give you that cream stout smoothness. I also like the idea of debittered malts.

I feel I could probably accomplish the amount of smoothness I would like with flaked oats or flaked barley. Maybe if I just cut back on the roasted barley and chocolate type malts and replaced it with debittered black that would do the trick.

[MtnBrewer]

Either debittered or dehusked roasted malts (e.g., Carafa) make for a smoother roasted flavor. BP tends to be harsh sometimes but Carafa II or III gives you just as much roasted flavor without the sharp flavor that seems to come with BP.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Either debittered or dehusked roasted malts (e.g., Carafa) make for a smoother roasted flavor. BP tends to be harsh sometimes but Carafa II or III gives you just as much roasted flavor without the sharp flavor that seems to come with BP.

Do you mean RB (roasted barley)? edit: just figured out you probably mean black patent

[Big Nake]

Another local brewer here made a nice Munich Lager kind-of-thing and IIRC, he used some Carafa II. The beer was pretty dark and it did have a coffee-like roasted flavor. I think he said he used 4 ounces in a 5-gallon batch. But this beer was still pretty roasty to me. When I taste some of these other dark beers (Indio is one and other beers like Shiner Bock come to mind), there is a very dark color but little-to-no roasty flavor whatsoever. Some other people I've asked about this have suggested that these beers are made with Sinamar as a way to darken the color without making them roasty.

[MtnBrewer]

Another local brewer here made a nice Munich Lager kind-of-thing and IIRC, he used some Carafa II. The beer was pretty dark and it did have a coffee-like roasted flavor. I think he said he used 4 ounces in a 5-gallon batch. But this beer was still pretty roasty to me. When I taste some of these other dark beers (Indio is one and other beers like Shiner Bock come to mind), there is a very dark color but little-to-no roasty flavor whatsoever. Some other people I've asked about this have suggested that these beers are made with Sinamar as a way to darken the color without making them roasty.

I interpreted his question to be "how do I get the roasted flavors required in a stout without some of the harsh bitterness that sometimes comes along with it?" I could be wrong but I don't think he's trying to eliminate the roasty aspect, just trying to tame it some.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

I interpreted his question to be "how do I get the roasted flavors required in a stout without some of the harsh bitterness that sometimes comes along with it?" I could be wrong but I don't think he's trying to eliminate the roasty aspect, just trying to tame it some.

that is correct. I'm trying to make something that, while still a stout, is a little better suited for the masses.

[stellarbrew]

The best luck I've had in producing very smooth stouts was arrived at by a long, cold conditioning process. A stout that tastes harsh, astringent, and overly roasty when very fresh, can taste like silky-smooth, black silk after a few months of cold conditioning. I think this is because the tannins fall out over time. I expect that debittered and dehusked dark malts will contribute fewer of these tannins to begin with, and would shorten the conditioning time you would need.

[djinkc]

It sounds like you want a Porter........

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

It sounds like you want a Porter........

maybe I do

[orudis]

is there a commercial example that . . . exemplifies . . . the goal you seek? To me, what you are describing is a classic dry stout, like Guinness or Murpheys. Since they are so dark/acidic, water chemistry can throw the flavor off depending on your water.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

is there a commercial example that . . . exemplifies . . . the goal you seek? To me, what you are describing is a classic dry stout, like Guinness or Murpheys. Since they are so dark/acidic, water chemistry can throw the flavor off depending on your water.

I've only had the former of your two examples - I'd say I'd like something like Guinness would be good but with less of that distinctive Guinness sourness and maybe a little more maltiness.

[MakeMeHoppy]

I've only had the former of your two examples - I'd say I'd like something like Guinness would be good but with less of that distinctive Guinness sourness and maybe a little more maltiness.

Try a Murphy's then you may find this is what you are looking for. I prefer Murphy's over Guinness

[Breakpoint]

actually, this is exactly what guinness tasted like when i was in ireland this summer. only a slight roasted taste, but overwhelmingly smooth. i'm sure part of that taste comes from the nitro tap, but i was going to play with different dark grains over than RB to see if i could get the color without the astringency. i figured less RB than the pound recommended for a 5 gallon batch and maybe debittered black to get the color and flaked barley to get the creaminess. haven't brewed a stout in a while, though, so it's going to take some trial and error.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

actually, this is exactly what guinness tasted like when i was in ireland this summer. only a slight roasted taste, but overwhelmingly smooth. i'm sure part of that taste comes from the nitro tap, but i was going to play with different dark grains over than RB to see if i could get the color without the astringency. i figured less RB than the pound recommended for a 5 gallon batch and maybe debittered black to get the color and flaked barley to get the creaminess. haven't brewed a stout in a while, though, so it's going to take some trial and error.

yes - I was considering just taking the common dry stout recipe and replacing half or more of the RB with debittered black and seeing what happens.

[Slainte]

I would just go with the classic dry stout recipe. 10% roasted barley (about 500 lovibond), and the rest Maris Otter with some flaked barley thrown in. 1.040-ish gravity with about .85-1 BU:GU ratio. Mash low. The key is getting the water correct with this beer, and fermenting with a clean ale yeast at a low temp. And make sure you don't oversparge as well if you're fly sparging.Should come out pretty damn smooth.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

I would just go with the classic dry stout recipe. 10% roasted barley (about 500 lovibond), and the rest Maris Otter with some flaked barley thrown in. 1.040-ish gravity with about .85-1 BU:GU ratio. Mash low. The key is getting the water correct with this beer, and fermenting with a clean ale yeast at a low temp. And make sure you don't oversparge as well if you're fly sparging. Should come out pretty damn smooth.

I've actually done something like this and I think it could stand to be slightly less astringent.

[Slainte]

I've actually done something like this and I think it could stand to be slightly less astringent.

Then I would probably go with what you suggested already. 50/50 RB and DB. That sounds good.