40 replies to this topic

[3rd party JKor]

Last night I was over at a friends house drinking some Tetley's Draught Pale Ale (3.6% ABV) and it dawned on me that there is a gaping hole in the commercial beer market. A true American-style session ale. The top of the heap in the American craft beer market for a session beer is the APA, but look on the shelves of your local good beer store. You can barely get an APA under 5% ABV and, on average, they're tipping the scales closer to 6%. The top 10 APAs on beeradvocate.com average 6.0% ABV. I don't know about you guys, but 6% ain't no session beer to me. I want a great American ale that I can drink a few of after work and not be groggy in the morning, or bring a few to a friends house for the game and not be afraid to drive home.I want a beer that's full bodied, flavorful, loaded with hops and won't knock me on my ass after three pints. Can I get an AMEN?!?!Here's what I came up with as a start:Central New England Pale AleA ProMash Recipe ReportRecipe Specifics----------------Batch Size (Gal): 12.00 Wort Size (Gal): 12.00Total Grain (Lbs): 15.50Anticipated OG: 1.036 Plato: 8.91Anticipated SRM: 6.0Anticipated IBU: 36.4Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %Wort Boil Time: 60 MinutesPre-Boil Amounts----------------Evaporation Rate: 15.00 Percent Per HourPre-Boil Wort Size: 14.12 GalPre-Boil Gravity: 1.030 SG 7.61 PlatoFormulas Used-------------Brewhouse Efficiency and Predicted Gravity based on Method #1, Potential Used.Final Gravity Calculation Based on Points.Hard Value of Sucrose applied. Value for recipe: 46.2100 ppppgYield Type used in Gravity Prediction: Fine Grind Dry Basis.Color Formula Used: MoreyHop IBU Formula Used: RagerAdditional Utilization Used For Plug Hops: 2 %Additional Utilization Used For Pellet Hops: 10 %Grain/Extract/Sugar % Amount Name Origin Potential SRM----------------------------------------------------------------------------- 90.3 14.00 lbs. Maris Otter Pale Great Britain 1.037 2 3.2 0.50 lbs. Crystal 80L America 1.033 80 3.2 0.50 lbs. Crystal 40L America 1.034 40 3.2 0.50 lbs. Caramel Pils Malt Belgium 1.034 2Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.Hops Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time----------------------------------------------------------------------------- 0.75 oz. Columbus 2008 HD Pellet 14.00 21.5 60 min. 0.50 oz. Amarillo 2008 HD Pellet 7.50 2.6 20 min. 0.50 oz. Columbus 2008 HD Pellet 14.00 4.8 20 min. 0.50 oz. Cascade 2008 HD Pellet 5.40 1.9 20 min. 0.50 oz. Amarillo 2008 HD Pellet 7.50 1.5 10 min. 0.50 oz. Columbus 2008 HD Pellet 14.00 2.9 10 min. 0.50 oz. Cascade 2008 HD Pellet 5.40 1.1 10 min. 0.50 oz. Amarillo 2008 HD Pellet 7.50 0.0 0 min. 0.50 oz. Columbus 2008 HD Pellet 14.00 0.0 0 min. 0.50 oz. Cascade 2008 HD Pellet 5.40 0.0 0 min. 1.00 oz. Amarillo 2008 HD Pellet 7.50 0.0 Dry Hop 1.00 oz. Cascade 2008 HD Pellet 5.40 0.0 Dry HopYeast-----White Labs WLP002 English AleWater Profile-------------Profile: My waterProfile known for: Leominster, MA well waterCalcium(Ca): 23.0 ppmMagnesium(Mg): 3.0 ppmSodium(Na): 22.0 ppmSulfate(SO4): 4.0 ppmChloride(Cl): 44.0 ppmbiCarbonate(HCO3): 57.0 ppmpH: 6.90Mash Schedule-------------Mash Type: Single StepGrain Lbs: 15.50Water Qts: 19.38 - Before Additional InfusionsWater Gal: 4.84 - Before Additional InfusionsQts Water Per Lbs Grain: 1.25 - Before Additional InfusionsSaccharification Rest Temp : 156 Time: 60Mash-out Rest Temp : 167 Time: 20Sparge Temp : 168 Time: 30Total Mash Volume Gal: 6.09 - Dough-In Infusion OnlyAll temperature measurements are degrees Fahrenheit.Notes-----1. Ferment at 67°F. 2. Add gypsum to get an appropriate chloride to sulfate ratio and total sulfate content. Cl:SO4 < 0.75, 100-200 ppm total SO4.What say ye, BlueBoard?

[dondewey]

I bet you will get quite a bit higher efficiency than normal; might want to drop it down a couple of pounds of base malt. Otherwise sounds good; will probably sound better when there isn't as much snow on the ground!

[3rd party JKor]

I bet you will get quite a bit higher efficiency than normal; might want to drop it down a couple of pounds of base malt. Otherwise sounds good; will probably sound better when there isn't as much snow on the ground!

Yeah, the efficiency may be higher, but I'm also trying to fool with my process to learn how I can affect efficiency. I usually do a 45-60 minute fly sparge, but I;m going to cut it back to 30 to see where it leaves me on the efficiency.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Yeah, the efficiency may be higher, but I'm also trying to fool with my process to learn how I can affect efficiency. I usually do a 45-60 minute fly sparge, but I;m going to cut it back to 30 to see where it leaves me on the efficiency.

sounds good but I actually have a hard time looking at 12 gallon recipes since I'm so used to 5 gallon recipes. It's too early for me to do division that isn't by 2

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

I also think we need a comptroller of posting recipes - too much text from wherever you are cutting and pasting that from. It takes me way too long (more than a second b/c I'm an impatient bastard) to find information in there.edit: take this in a light hearted way but it is true that I'm an impatient bastard.

[3rd party JKor]

I copy/pasted right out of the ProMash generated text file. I agree it is overly busy, but I didn't want to type everything out.Aren't most '5 gallon' recipes actually for 6 gallons of boiled wort? I think you can just divide it by two, unless you actually shoot for 5 gallons of chilled wort, before transfer.Here's the recipe for 6 gallons with most of the extraneous stuff removed:Central Mass Session Ale % Amount Name Origin Potential SRM----------------------------------------------------------------------------- 90.3 7.00 lbs. Maris Otter Pale Great Britain 1.037 2 3.2 0.25 lbs. Crystal 80L America 1.033 80 3.2 0.25 lbs. Crystal 40L America 1.034 40 3.2 0.25 lbs. Caramel Pils Malt Belgium 1.034 2Mash at 156°F Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time----------------------------------------------------------------------------- 0.38 oz. Columbus 2008 HD Pellet 14.00 21.5 60 min. 0.25 oz. Amarillo 2008 HD Pellet 7.50 2.6 20 min. 0.25 oz. Columbus 2008 HD Pellet 14.00 4.8 20 min. 0.25 oz. Cascade 2008 HD Pellet 5.40 1.9 20 min. 0.25 oz. Amarillo 2008 HD Pellet 7.50 1.5 10 min. 0.25 oz. Columbus 2008 HD Pellet 14.00 2.9 10 min. 0.25 oz. Cascade 2008 HD Pellet 5.40 1.1 10 min. 0.25 oz. Amarillo 2008 HD Pellet 7.50 0.0 0 min. 0.25 oz. Columbus 2008 HD Pellet 14.00 0.0 0 min. 0.25 oz. Cascade 2008 HD Pellet 5.40 0.0 0 min. 0.50 oz. Amarillo 2008 HD Pellet 7.50 0.0 Dry Hop 0.50 oz. Cascade 2008 HD Pellet 5.40 0.0 Dry HopAdd gypsum to get an appropriate chloride to sulfate ratio and total sulfate content. Cl:SO4 < 0.75, 100-200 ppm total SO4.White Labs WLP002 English Ale, Ferment at 67°F

Edited by JKoravos, 23 December 2009 - 07:07 AM.

[jasonrobertcohen]

Love the idea. I read this first on RSS (which leaves out the poster's name) and I had a hunch it was from you.1.036 OG with your reduced attenuation mash might be a little extreme. I like the idea of raising the temp on the mash to make up for the reduced initial sugars, but wouldn't this lead to something in the 3.0% ABV range?In any case, this is a great idea. I think your limiting factor on the time for this one being done is the dryhopping as opposed to fermentation and conditioning. Should be an extremely fast ferment.jrc

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

So that's a lot of measuring of hops you have to do there :smilielol:I think the recipe looks good. I've never used american hops with an otherwise pretty english looking recipe. Have you done this before?

[3rd party JKor]

Love the idea. I read this first on RSS (which leaves out the poster's name) and I had a hunch it was from you. 1.036 OG with your reduced attenuation mash might be a little extreme. I like the idea of raising the temp on the mash to make up for the reduced initial sugars, but wouldn't this lead to something in the 3.0% ABV range? In any case, this is a great idea. I think your limiting factor on the time for this one being done is the dryhopping as opposed to fermentation and conditioning. Should be an extremely fast ferment. jrc

Yeah, I'm wondering how far the yeast is going to attenuate on this one. Although, I intentionally forced this recipe to the high side on the unfermentables. I'd rather end up with a full bodied beer at 2.8% abv, than one that's thin and lifeless at 3.8%. I'd prefer to have to dial the unfermentables down, instead of up on the next iteration. My goal going in was to hit somewhere in the 3.0-3.5% range, so I think I'll be in that range. Hopefully it doesn't finish at 1.018, but that might be an interesting beer, too.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Yeah, I'm wondering how far the yeast is going to attenuate on this one. Although, I intentionally forced this recipe to the high side on the unfermentables. I'd rather end up with a full bodied beer at 2.8% abv, than one that's thin and lifeless at 3.8%. I'd prefer to have to dial the unfermentables down, instead of up on the next iteration. My goal going in was to hit somewhere in the 3.0-3.5% range, so I think I'll be in that range. Hopefully it doesn't finish at 1.018, but that might be an interesting beer, too.

I also meant to say - are the IBUs a little high for a session beer?

[3rd party JKor]

So that's a lot of measuring of hops you have to do there I think the recipe looks good. I've never used american hops with an otherwise pretty english looking recipe. Have you done this before?

Yup, I'll definitely be getting the hops ready beforehand for this brew. I think I'm going to try to brew it up this weekend and get it out for the beer pass. I got the idea to use the MO from Mirror Pond, it's super malty and it goes really nice with the all-cascade hop schedule they use. Deschutes doesn't use MO in Mirror Pond, but they do use a Pale Ale malt. I was also thinking of using the 15 lbs of Golden Promise from the group buy for this one.

[3rd party JKor]

I also meant to say - are the IBUs a little high for a session beer?

36 IBU? Yeah, the BU:GU ratio is fairly high (1.0), but I don't think it'll overpower the malt side of things since there should be a considerable amount of unfermentables.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Yup, I'll definitely be getting the hops ready beforehand for this brew. I think I'm going to try to brew it up this weekend and get it out for the beer pass. I got the idea to use the MO from Mirror Pond, it's super malty and it goes really nice with the all-cascade hop schedule they use. Deschutes doesn't use MO in Mirror Pond, but they do use a Pale Ale malt. I was also thinking of using the 15 lbs of Golden Promise from the group buy for this one.

Is pale ale malt the same as US Pale Ale (different then US 2-row???) that was ordered during the group buy? It was from Canada Malting Company I believe. I'd really like to make a session ale as well...

[3rd party JKor]

US 2-row and Pale Ale are different. Pale Ale malt is kilned slightly darker and gives a more malty flavor. Maris Otter/Golden Promise are malted as 'Pale Ale' malts. The Canada Malting actually looks like it's kilned a little darker than a typical US 2-row. It's listed as 2.0-3.5°L, the Thomas Fawcett MO is listed as 2.2-3.0°L. Briess lists their US 2-row as 1.8°L

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

US 2-row and Pale Ale are different. Pale Ale malt is kilned slightly darker and gives a more malty flavor. Maris Otter/Golden Promise are malted as 'Pale Ale' malts. The Canada Malting actually looks like it's kilned a little darker than a typical US 2-row. It's listed as 2.0-3.5°L, the Thomas Fawcett MO is listed as 2.2-3.0°L. Briess lists their US 2-row as 1.8°L

that explains why my pales have been pretty kick ass and slightly dark edit: I need to make sure the lovibond value in my spreadsheet is correct when I get home

[stellarbrew]

I like your hopping schedule. Columbus with Amarillo is the tastiest, most wonderful of all hop combinations, IMO.It's a good concept. I'll be interested to hear the results.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

I like your hopping schedule. Columbus with Amarillo is the tastiest, most wonderful of all hop combinations, IMO. It's a good concept. I'll be interested to hear the results.

I need to try these hops out - I'm pretty noob when it comes to brewing with lots of hops since I buy them a pound at a time.

[gumballhead]

I need to try these hops out - I'm pretty noob when it comes to brewing with lots of hops since I buy them a pound at a time.

a Pound is only 16 oz. and If you make and Like Red's Rye or any of the Larger IPA's you will quickly go through that Pound. Cascade and Centinal are also Great for these types.. The Columbus hop is pretty big. a pound of that will go a very long way.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

a Pound is only 16 oz. and If you make and Like Red's Rye or any of the Larger IPA's you will quickly go through that Pound. Cascade and Centinal are also Great for these types.. The Columbus hop is pretty big. a pound of that will go a very long way.

I should have said a pound per variety so when I order I'm usually ordering a few pounds. Most 5 gallon batches only use 3-4oz of hops. Even my AIPA only used 7oz.

[3rd party JKor]

Even my AIPA only used 7oz.

Needs more hops.....