25 replies to this topic

[harryfrog]

I only secondary when I'm out of keg room but need a primary or if I forget the irish moss in the boil kettle and need to add a fining agent (which I've annoyingly been doing a lot lately). otherwise I cold crash primary for 24 hours - move it and let it sit for at least 30 mins before racking into a keg. I usually "discard" the first pint of beer (at least that's what I tell the wife). I'm happy with the results so far.

[MtnBrewer]

even when you would transfer to 2ndary prior to kegging you'd discard the first couple of pints?

Yes.

[3rd party JKor]

we do essentially the same thing except in between the primary and keg I put the beer in a 5 gal better bottle. I actually pretty much always do about 2 weeks + some time spent in the basement or fridge (sometimes, like right now, the basement is already cool enough to encourage yeast to settle out).

A bright tank is similar to a secondary in that it's purpose is clarfying the beer, but my process would be different than the typical secondary. I would actually let the fermenation go to completion, plus some more, in the conical, then cold crash in the conical. Once the beer is <35, I would transfer to the bright tank and add gel (maybe carb, too). After a few days transfer to cornies.

I guess I think of my secondary as a "bright tank". Usually gel is not needed in my secondary, if I give it a couple of weeks of cold conditioning. Like Zym, I prefer to have as little yeast sediment as possible in my serving keg, and no matter how careful I am in transferring from primary to secondary, and no matter how clear the beer seems at the time of transfer, I will inevitably have a thin yeast layer at the bottom of the secondary after a week or two. With the recent discussion about oxidation during transfer, I have been trying to think of a way to skip secondary (one less transfer) and still minimize yeast in the serving keg. What I think of doing is allowing for a nice, long primary, and then adding gel a day or two before transferring to the keg. My thought is that the gel would settle out with the yeast, and lessen the the likelyhood of stirring up any yeast that would carry over during transfer. I might give this a try. Of course, if I wanted to reuse the yeast, I think I would need to harvest it before adding the gel.

I'm battling a chill haze problem, so I need the gel to get my clarity where I want it. I need to fool around with my mash acidity in my next few batches. I think I'm extracting too much during the sparge.

Edited by JKoravos, 22 December 2009 - 08:25 PM.

[Salsgebom]

Do you do anything different like cold crashing the primary for a few days before transferring to keg or bottling? My main concern with skipping secondary when kegging is every time I pour that first beer (if I haven't poured one in a while or if I've moved the keg) that I'll get a glass full of trub/yeast.

I crash cool the primary and add gelatin (it works best if you follow a procedure of hydrating the gelatin in 150F water and immediately add the hot solution directly to the cold beer). It can take up to 3 days for the primary to drop clear, but I've transferred clear beer in less than 24 hours. There still tends to be a bit of yeast that settles out in the keg, to get around this you just have to let your carboy sit longer before you transfer.

I only meant that because a porter or stout isn't going to show the difference in clarity anyway. Gee if you like high SRM beers, I would skip secondary for sure.

Clarity is as much about flavor as it is appearance. Suspended yeast inhibits malt and hop character, thus taking from the 'direction' of the beer. Hops in suspension add grassy notes that actually cloud the real character of the hop varieties used. Clear stout is cleaner and easier drinking than cloudy stout.

I only secondary when I'm out of keg room but need a primary or if I forget the irish moss in the boil kettle and need to add a fining agent (which I've annoyingly been doing a lot lately). otherwise I cold crash primary for 24 hours - move it and let it sit for at least 30 mins before racking into a keg. I usually "discard" the first pint of beer (at least that's what I tell the wife). I'm happy with the results so far.

Irish moss coagulates proteins in the boil. This product was intended to help make whirlpooling more affective for commercial breweries so they don't clog their heat exchanger or have excess proteins in their yeast slurry which will be used again and again. It doesn't really clear your final beer. Suspended yeast is the main reason your fermented beer is cloudy. You need cold temps and post fermentation finings (gelatin, isinglass, pvpp) to yield clear beer (or just let the beer sit cold for a while if you don't like finings).

[Stout_fan]

For an average beer, I let it sit in the primary for at least two weeks at fermentation temp, then I transfer to cornies. I don;t really have to worry about transferring excess trub/yeast since the transfer valve on my conical is well above the layer of solids in the cone. Once the beer is in the cornies I let it sit and carbonate cold for a week. That clears it up as much as it;s going to clear. The first half pint or so is nasty, the second and third may have a slight haze but after that it's clear. ...

we do essentially the same thing except in between the primary and keg I put the beer in a 5 gal better bottle. I actually pretty much always do about 2 weeks + some time spent in the basement or fridge (sometimes, like right now, the basement is already cool enough to encourage yeast to settle out).

Well I guess that kind of makes three of us. My batches are big enough, so I fill 2 1/2 cornies. Two go back in the wine cellar for storage. IPA's I try to drink fast though. When I have to go to a major party (bring a whole keg) and probably blow the keg, I'll first transfer the beer to a second cornie, using the first as a bright tank. That way it doesn't get the sediment all stirred up.I guess you can look at it from the perspective I cask condition all my beers.Well, THAT's my story and I'm stickin' to it !

[thool]

A senior member of my brewclub swears by the no secondary rule. He looks at it was just another chance to infect or oxidize your beer. I think you should try no secondary at least once with a light colored beer to see if you like the results. As I said before you can always rack it to another keg if you don't like the results.

This is exactly my theory. I've left it in the primary for 4 weeks and then gone straight to the keg for 2 weeks worth of carbonating at 35F and 12 psi of CO2. After the first couple ounces, it is very clear.