17 replies to this topic

[McNuggets]

A very over the top IIPA. Killer recipe for those with hop addictions, or needing to clean out the freezer.Batch Size: 6.00 gal Boil Size: 8.08 galEstimated OG: 1.096 SGEstimated FG: 1.017 FGEstimated Color: 8.8 SRMEstimated IBU: 336.8 IBUBrewhouse Efficiency: 70.0 %Boil Time: 90 MinutesIngredients:------------Amount Item Type % or IBU 18.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 80.9 % 1.50 lb Corn, Flaked (1.3 SRM) Grain 6.7 % 1.00 lb Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 4.5 % 0.75 lb Special Roast (50.0 SRM) Grain 3.4 % 0.50 lb White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 2.2 % 1.50 oz Centennial [8.80%] (90 min) (Mash Hop) Hops 6.7 IBU 0.75 oz Chinook [11.00%] (90 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 23.0 IBU 3.25 oz Warrior [15.00%] (90 min) Hops 123.6 IBU 1.50 oz Magnum [10.00%] (90 min) Hops 38.0 IBU 0.75 oz Zeus [16.00%] (90 min) Hops 27.4 IBU 0.75 oz Chinook [11.00%] (45 min) Hops 18.0 IBU 1.00 oz Zeus [16.00%] (30 min) Hops 26.2 IBU 1.00 oz Simcoe [12.90%] (30 min) Hops 21.2 IBU 2.00 oz Centennial [10.00%] (15 min) Hops 23.5 IBU 1.00 oz Cascade [5.50%] (15 min) Hops 6.5 IBU1.00 oz Simcoe [12.90%] (15 min) Hops 13.7 IBU 1.50 oz Amarillo [7.00%] (10 min) Hops 9.0 IBU 1.00 oz Newport [10.00%] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops - 1.00 oz Zeus [16.00%] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops - 1.25 oz Summit [18.00%] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops - 1.50 oz Simcoe [12.90%] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops - 2.00 oz Cascade [5.50%] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops - 1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 0.50 lb Cane (Beet) Sugar (0.0 SRM) Sugar 2.2 % 1 Pkgs Safale-05 (Fermentis) Yeast-Ale Mash Schedule: Temperature Mash, 1 Step, Light BodyTotal Grain Weight: 21.75 lb----------------------------Name Description Step Temp Step Time Saccharification Add 5.44 gal of water at 163.0 F 149.0 F 75 min Mash Out Heat to 168.0 F over 10 min 168.0 F 10 min

Edited by McNuggets, 10 December 2009 - 01:42 PM.

[Big Nake]

Yep, 336 IBUs should adequately kill everyone in the compound.

[jayb151]

Yea, why is your Bittering addition the largest one? If I wer to do this recipe I would throw in enough hops at 90 to get to 100 IBU's and use the rest like you have it. Not to say it's a bad recipe, but I just don't see the point of adding a huge amount of hops @ 90.Edit: Oh, and why Kool Aid? Sounds like there's an interesting story there.

[chadm75]

A very over the top IIPA. Killer recipe for those with hop addictions, or needing to clean out the freezer. Batch Size: 6.00 gal Boil Size: 8.08 gal Estimated OG: 1.096 SG Estimated FG: 1.017 FG Estimated Color: 8.8 SRM Estimated IBU: 336.8 IBU Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.0 % Boil Time: 90 Minutes Ingredients: ------------ Amount Item Type % or IBU 18.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 80.9 % 1.50 lb Corn, Flaked (1.3 SRM) Grain 6.7 % 1.00 lb Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 4.5 % 0.75 lb Special Roast (50.0 SRM) Grain 3.4 % 0.50 lb White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 2.2 % 1.50 oz Centennial [8.80%] (90 min) (Mash Hop) Hops 6.7 IBU 0.75 oz Chinook [11.00%] (90 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 23.0 IBU 3.25 oz Warrior [15.00%] (90 min) Hops 123.6 IBU 1.50 oz Magnum [10.00%] (90 min) Hops 38.0 IBU 0.75 oz Zeus [16.00%] (90 min) Hops 27.4 IBU 0.75 oz Chinook [11.00%] (45 min) Hops 18.0 IBU 1.00 oz Zeus [16.00%] (30 min) Hops 26.2 IBU 1.00 oz Simcoe [12.90%] (30 min) Hops 21.2 IBU 2.00 oz Centennial [10.00%] (15 min) Hops 23.5 IBU 1.00 oz Cascade [5.50%] (15 min) Hops 6.5 IBU 1.00 oz Simcoe [12.90%] (15 min) Hops 13.7 IBU 1.50 oz Amarillo [7.00%] (10 min) Hops 9.0 IBU 1.00 oz Newport [10.00%] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops - 1.00 oz Zeus [16.00%] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops - 1.25 oz Summit [18.00%] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops - 1.50 oz Simcoe [12.90%] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops - 2.00 oz Cascade [5.50%] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops - 1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 0.50 lb Cane (Beet) Sugar (0.0 SRM) Sugar 2.2 % 1 Pkgs Safale-05 (Fermentis) Yeast-Ale Mash Schedule: Temperature Mash, 1 Step, Light Body Total Grain Weight: 21.75 lb ---------------------------- Name Description Step Temp Step Time Saccharification Add 5.44 gal of water at 163.0 F 149.0 F 75 min Mash Out Heat to 168.0 F over 10 min 168.0 F 10 min

Please tell us you're kidding...

[McNuggets]

Yea, why is your Bittering addition the largest one? If I wer to do this recipe I would throw in enough hops at 90 to get to 100 IBU's and use the rest like you have it. Not to say it's a bad recipe, but I just don't see the point of adding a huge amount of hops @ 90. Edit: Oh, and why Kool Aid? Sounds like there's an interesting story there.

I did it like that just to see what would happen. I've often read that even though you can't taste much more than 100-120 IBU, there is a difference in beers that have a calculated 100 IBU, and a calculated 300 IBU. In the end, I think my only conclusion was that it hops made it good.https://www.brews-bros.xyz/public/style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif I had originally called this beer Final Solution IIPA, but the PC Nazis at the other place put an end to that. So I thought Jonestown Kool-Aid, wipe out the masses so to speak, lol. Political correctness was never my forte.

Please tell us you're kidding...

No it's for real. And it's surprisingly smooth. I think the key is to use 90 bittering hops that aren't too harsh. And I have very soft water, but I didn't use sulfates either to crank up the sharpness. Even after a few months, the aroma of this beer was unreal. I plan to enter this beer in some competitions.

[DaBearSox]

Holy Shnikes

[Big Nake]

Edit: Oh, and why Kool Aid? Sounds like there's an interesting story there.

At Jonestown, they mixed cyanide with Kool-aid to get everyone to drink it. They're running a wildly vivid story about it on CNN called Escape from Jonestown. It's on every once in awhile. For any more than that, you'll have to Google it. Chad: I had the same reaction as you. McNugget's recipe here is about 10x higher in IBUs than the highest IBU beer I make!

[3rd party JKor]

That's about 50% more hops than Pliny. Good on you, my friend.

[gumballhead]

not trying to boost the thread but the Czech IIIPA that I did was this...hot,a bit spicy due to the Czech Hops. and for the love of Mother of hops wow good. a Pint of this will make any cold winter day a Warm and Fuzzy one.this finished out at about 10 or 11% and the IBU were also off the Charts so Props to Mcnuggets I'll give it a try. just no Kool-aid Please.... Style: Imperial IPATYPE: All GrainTaste: (35.0) Recipe Specifications--------------------------Batch Size: 5.00 gal Boil Size: 7.18 galEstimated OG: 1.091 SGEstimated Color: 7.1 SRMEstimated IBU: 218.6 IBUBrewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %Boil Time: 90 MinutesIngredients:------------Amount Item Type % or IBU 12.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 75.00 % 1.00 lb Caravienne Malt (22.0 SRM) Grain 6.25 % 0.25 oz Premiant [7.10 %] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops - 2.40 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.20 %] (90 min) Hops 146.1 IBU 0.25 oz Sladek [7.80 %] (90 min) (First Wort Hop)Hops 9.2 IBU 0.25 oz Marynka [6.50 %] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops - 0.50 oz Sladek [7.80 %] (45 min) Hops 15.0 IBU 0.50 oz Marynka [6.50 %] (45 min) Hops 12.5 IBU 0.50 oz Premiant [7.10 %] (45 min) Hops 13.6 IBU 0.25 oz Premiant [7.10 %] (20 min) Hops 2.6 IBU 0.25 oz Sladek [7.80 %] (20 min) Hops 2.8 IBU 0.25 oz Marynka [6.50 %] (20 min) Hops 2.3 IBU 0.25 oz Marynka [6.50 %] (15 min) Hops 1.9 IBU 0.25 oz Premiant [7.10 %] (15 min) Hops 2.0 IBU 0.25 oz Sladek [7.80 %] (15 min) Hops 2.2 IBU 0.25 oz Marynka [6.50 %] (10 min) Hops 1.4 IBU 0.25 oz Premiant [7.10 %] (10 min) Hops 1.5 IBU 0.25 oz Sladek [7.80 %] (10 min) Hops 1.7 IBU 0.25 oz Sladek [7.80 %] (5 min) Hops 1.4 IBU 0.25 oz Marynka [6.50 %] (5 min) Hops 1.2 IBU 0.25 oz Premiant [7.10 %] (5 min) Hops 1.3 IBU 0.25 oz Marynka [6.50 %] (0 min) (Aroma Hop-SteepHops - 0.25 oz Premiant [7.10 %] (0 min) (Aroma Hop-SteeHops - 0.25 oz Sladek [7.80 %] (0 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep)Hops - 1.00 tbsp PH 5.2 Stabilizer (Mash 60.0 min) Misc 1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 3.00 lb Honey (1.0 SRM) Sugar 18.75 % 1 Pkgs Imperial Blend (Wyeast Labs #9093PC) [StarYeast-Ale Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light BodyTotal Grain Weight: 13.00 lb----------------------------Single Infusion, Light BodySt (0 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep)Hops - 1.00 tbsp PH 5.2 Stabilizer (Mash 60.0 min) Misc 1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 3.00 lb Honey (1.0 SRM) Sugar 18.75 % 1 Pkgs Imperial Blend (Wyeast Labs #9093PC) [StarYeast-Ale Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light BodyTotal Grain Weight: 13.00 lb----------------------------Single Infusion, Light BodyStep Time Name Description Step Temp 75 min Mash In Add 14.95 qt of water at 167.6 F 151.0 F 10 min Mash Out Add 10.40 qt of water at 198.3 F 168.0 F

[McNuggets]

Sometimes, you just need to go off the end of the map.

[Thirsty]

I did it like that just to see what would happen. I've often read that even though you can't taste much more than 100-120 IBU, there is a difference in beers that have a calculated 100 IBU, and a calculated 300 IBU. Even after a few months, the aroma of this beer was unreal. I plan to enter this beer in some competitions.

I agree whole heartedly with this theory. The claim is you cannot detect bitterness past 100 IBUs I think is washy. There is a definite difference, maybe just in palate feel than flavor between a 100 and a 200 IBU beer. Now is there a noticable difference between a 200 and 300, that I do not know. My biggest DIPAs have only gone to 186. The tricky part is holding the IBUs and aroma long enough for the beer to mellow, but still stay fresh. There seems to be an opprtunity window, for me it is about 3 weeks into a keg. The initial harsh grassiness of the hops subdues, and it seems to lose bitterness, if you overshoot targets, and let it mellow, you can find that balance. I have only judged the 14C cat once, (I uaually enter in it making me ineligible to judge it) and I have found that most of the entries are much to tame for the category. Whenever I ask the judges after the flight what they thought of the beers, the response is usually the same- "does everyone know the hop shortage is over?" There are some great commercial examples that are "imperial" but well balanced and mellow, to do well in this category for comp, I think it needs to have absurd levels of bitterness and aroma. The BJCP guidelines actually use the words "absurdly high", so I think this beer has the ability to be a contender!

[japh]

I agree whole heartedly with this theory. The claim is you cannot detect bitterness past 100 IBUs I think is washy. There is a definite difference, maybe just in palate feel than flavor between a 100 and a 200 IBU beer. Now is there a noticable difference between a 200 and 300, that I do not know. My biggest DIPAs have only gone to 186.

That's because flavor != bitterness. You may only taste bitterness/total dissoluble alpha-acids may be in the 100 range, but the flavor and aroma are different things.

[3rd party JKor]

I agree whole heartedly with this theory. The claim is you cannot detect bitterness past 100 IBUs I think is washy. There is a definite difference, maybe just in palate feel than flavor between a 100 and a 200 IBU beer. Now is there a noticable difference between a 200 and 300, that I do not know. My biggest DIPAs have only gone to 186. The tricky part is holding the IBUs and aroma long enough for the beer to mellow, but still stay fresh. There seems to be an opprtunity window, for me it is about 3 weeks into a keg. The initial harsh grassiness of the hops subdues, and it seems to lose bitterness, if you overshoot targets, and let it mellow, you can find that balance. I have only judged the 14C cat once, (I uaually enter in it making me ineligible to judge it) and I have found that most of the entries are much to tame for the category. Whenever I ask the judges after the flight what they thought of the beers, the response is usually the same- "does everyone know the hop shortage is over?" There are some great commercial examples that are "imperial" but well balanced and mellow, to do well in this category for comp, I think it needs to have absurd levels of bitterness and aroma. The BJCP guidelines actually use the words "absurdly high", so I think this beer has the ability to be a contender!

I don't think the claim is that you can't detect bitterness past 100 IBU, it's that you can't get past 100 IBUs dissolved into the beer. The reason a 100 IBU and a 200 IBU beer taste different is because those numbers are theoretical estimates of alpha acid dissolution in the beers. And the correlations that are used to estimate IBUs (Rager/Morey/etc.) were likely made using data for bittering levels of typical commercial beers at the time, i.e. probably 75 IBU and less. The formulas we use in ProMash/BeerTools/etc. are wildly inaccurate at the levels we are talking about. If you went to the lab and got them analyzed the "100 IBU" might have 75 IBUs, and the "200 IBU" might have 85 IBU. The Pliny recipe is predicted around 275 IBUs with Rager. Lab measurements (according to Jamil) peg it at 65. The moral of the story is that IBU calculations for high alpha beers are pretty much useless.

[McNuggets]

I wouldn't say they are pretty much useless in the context of two beers being very different. My 100 IBU calculated beers with lots of late hops are quite different than this beer. If you made this beer without 150 IBUs of 90 minute bittering hops, I think you would have a noticeably different beer.

[3rd party JKor]

I wouldn't say they are pretty much useless in the context of two beers being very different. My 100 IBU calculated beers with lots of late hops are quite different than this beer. If you made this beer without 150 IBUs of 90 minute bittering hops, I think you would have a noticeably different beer.

Sure, but the calculations aren't telling you anything except that you're putting more hops in it. What use is that? The other moral of the story is that we need someone to create a better correlation for alpha acid solubility.

Edited by JKoravos, 11 December 2009 - 01:57 PM.

[McNuggets]

I think it is a good relative gauge, because in my experience, the beers are different, so for the purpose of comparison, I think the numbers are useful.

[3rd party JKor]

I think it is a good relative gauge, because in my experience, the beers are different, so for the purpose of comparison, I think the numbers are useful.

I'm not necessarily arguing against the fact that it gives you some relative comparison, but the purpose of IBU is to tell you the concentration of iso-alpha acids in solution. You can only use it for comparisons if you are adding the hops at the exact time from batch to batch. The variation in flavors between a '100' IBU beer and a '200' IBU beer is probably mostly due to aroma and flavor compounds, as opposed to iso-alpha acids.

[McNuggets]

Weeeeeeeellllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll:lol:, you are right in one context, but I have come to the conclusion that IBU isn't something easily measured to an exact number. I find that calculation is better used as a tool that you use in comparison to the hops you use and the beers you have made in the past - let's say a bearing, as opposed to a location. It's not just the variation in flavour. There is something distinctly different in those beers. That's been my experience anyway.