Edited by McNuggets, 10 December 2009 - 01:42 PM.
Jonestown Kool-aid IIPA
#1
Posted 10 December 2009 - 01:40 PM
#2
Posted 10 December 2009 - 02:05 PM
#3
Posted 10 December 2009 - 02:50 PM
#4
Posted 10 December 2009 - 03:03 PM
Please tell us you're kidding...A very over the top IIPA. Killer recipe for those with hop addictions, or needing to clean out the freezer. Batch Size: 6.00 gal Boil Size: 8.08 gal Estimated OG: 1.096 SG Estimated FG: 1.017 FG Estimated Color: 8.8 SRM Estimated IBU: 336.8 IBU Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.0 % Boil Time: 90 Minutes Ingredients: ------------ Amount Item Type % or IBU 18.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 80.9 % 1.50 lb Corn, Flaked (1.3 SRM) Grain 6.7 % 1.00 lb Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 4.5 % 0.75 lb Special Roast (50.0 SRM) Grain 3.4 % 0.50 lb White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 2.2 % 1.50 oz Centennial [8.80%] (90 min) (Mash Hop) Hops 6.7 IBU 0.75 oz Chinook [11.00%] (90 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 23.0 IBU 3.25 oz Warrior [15.00%] (90 min) Hops 123.6 IBU 1.50 oz Magnum [10.00%] (90 min) Hops 38.0 IBU 0.75 oz Zeus [16.00%] (90 min) Hops 27.4 IBU 0.75 oz Chinook [11.00%] (45 min) Hops 18.0 IBU 1.00 oz Zeus [16.00%] (30 min) Hops 26.2 IBU 1.00 oz Simcoe [12.90%] (30 min) Hops 21.2 IBU 2.00 oz Centennial [10.00%] (15 min) Hops 23.5 IBU 1.00 oz Cascade [5.50%] (15 min) Hops 6.5 IBU 1.00 oz Simcoe [12.90%] (15 min) Hops 13.7 IBU 1.50 oz Amarillo [7.00%] (10 min) Hops 9.0 IBU 1.00 oz Newport [10.00%] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops - 1.00 oz Zeus [16.00%] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops - 1.25 oz Summit [18.00%] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops - 1.50 oz Simcoe [12.90%] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops - 2.00 oz Cascade [5.50%] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops - 1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 0.50 lb Cane (Beet) Sugar (0.0 SRM) Sugar 2.2 % 1 Pkgs Safale-05 (Fermentis) Yeast-Ale Mash Schedule: Temperature Mash, 1 Step, Light Body Total Grain Weight: 21.75 lb ---------------------------- Name Description Step Temp Step Time Saccharification Add 5.44 gal of water at 163.0 F 149.0 F 75 min Mash Out Heat to 168.0 F over 10 min 168.0 F 10 min
#5
Posted 10 December 2009 - 03:18 PM
I did it like that just to see what would happen. I've often read that even though you can't taste much more than 100-120 IBU, there is a difference in beers that have a calculated 100 IBU, and a calculated 300 IBU. In the end, I think my only conclusion was that it hops made it good.https://www.brews-bros.xyz/public/style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif I had originally called this beer Final Solution IIPA, but the PC Nazis at the other place put an end to that. So I thought Jonestown Kool-Aid, wipe out the masses so to speak, lol. Political correctness was never my forte.Yea, why is your Bittering addition the largest one? If I wer to do this recipe I would throw in enough hops at 90 to get to 100 IBU's and use the rest like you have it. Not to say it's a bad recipe, but I just don't see the point of adding a huge amount of hops @ 90. Edit: Oh, and why Kool Aid? Sounds like there's an interesting story there.
No it's for real. And it's surprisingly smooth. I think the key is to use 90 bittering hops that aren't too harsh. And I have very soft water, but I didn't use sulfates either to crank up the sharpness. Even after a few months, the aroma of this beer was unreal. I plan to enter this beer in some competitions.Please tell us you're kidding...
#6
Posted 10 December 2009 - 03:32 PM
#7
Posted 10 December 2009 - 03:40 PM
At Jonestown, they mixed cyanide with Kool-aid to get everyone to drink it. They're running a wildly vivid story about it on CNN called Escape from Jonestown. It's on every once in awhile. For any more than that, you'll have to Google it. Chad: I had the same reaction as you. McNugget's recipe here is about 10x higher in IBUs than the highest IBU beer I make!Edit: Oh, and why Kool Aid? Sounds like there's an interesting story there.
#8
Posted 10 December 2009 - 08:35 PM
#9
Posted 11 December 2009 - 05:51 AM
#10
Posted 11 December 2009 - 06:11 AM
#11
Posted 11 December 2009 - 09:03 AM
I agree whole heartedly with this theory. The claim is you cannot detect bitterness past 100 IBUs I think is washy. There is a definite difference, maybe just in palate feel than flavor between a 100 and a 200 IBU beer. Now is there a noticable difference between a 200 and 300, that I do not know. My biggest DIPAs have only gone to 186. The tricky part is holding the IBUs and aroma long enough for the beer to mellow, but still stay fresh. There seems to be an opprtunity window, for me it is about 3 weeks into a keg. The initial harsh grassiness of the hops subdues, and it seems to lose bitterness, if you overshoot targets, and let it mellow, you can find that balance. I have only judged the 14C cat once, (I uaually enter in it making me ineligible to judge it) and I have found that most of the entries are much to tame for the category. Whenever I ask the judges after the flight what they thought of the beers, the response is usually the same- "does everyone know the hop shortage is over?" There are some great commercial examples that are "imperial" but well balanced and mellow, to do well in this category for comp, I think it needs to have absurd levels of bitterness and aroma. The BJCP guidelines actually use the words "absurdly high", so I think this beer has the ability to be a contender!I did it like that just to see what would happen. I've often read that even though you can't taste much more than 100-120 IBU, there is a difference in beers that have a calculated 100 IBU, and a calculated 300 IBU. Even after a few months, the aroma of this beer was unreal. I plan to enter this beer in some competitions.
#12
Posted 11 December 2009 - 11:05 AM
That's because flavor != bitterness. You may only taste bitterness/total dissoluble alpha-acids may be in the 100 range, but the flavor and aroma are different things.I agree whole heartedly with this theory. The claim is you cannot detect bitterness past 100 IBUs I think is washy. There is a definite difference, maybe just in palate feel than flavor between a 100 and a 200 IBU beer. Now is there a noticable difference between a 200 and 300, that I do not know. My biggest DIPAs have only gone to 186.
#13
Posted 11 December 2009 - 01:06 PM
I don't think the claim is that you can't detect bitterness past 100 IBU, it's that you can't get past 100 IBUs dissolved into the beer. The reason a 100 IBU and a 200 IBU beer taste different is because those numbers are theoretical estimates of alpha acid dissolution in the beers. And the correlations that are used to estimate IBUs (Rager/Morey/etc.) were likely made using data for bittering levels of typical commercial beers at the time, i.e. probably 75 IBU and less. The formulas we use in ProMash/BeerTools/etc. are wildly inaccurate at the levels we are talking about. If you went to the lab and got them analyzed the "100 IBU" might have 75 IBUs, and the "200 IBU" might have 85 IBU. The Pliny recipe is predicted around 275 IBUs with Rager. Lab measurements (according to Jamil) peg it at 65. The moral of the story is that IBU calculations for high alpha beers are pretty much useless.I agree whole heartedly with this theory. The claim is you cannot detect bitterness past 100 IBUs I think is washy. There is a definite difference, maybe just in palate feel than flavor between a 100 and a 200 IBU beer. Now is there a noticable difference between a 200 and 300, that I do not know. My biggest DIPAs have only gone to 186. The tricky part is holding the IBUs and aroma long enough for the beer to mellow, but still stay fresh. There seems to be an opprtunity window, for me it is about 3 weeks into a keg. The initial harsh grassiness of the hops subdues, and it seems to lose bitterness, if you overshoot targets, and let it mellow, you can find that balance. I have only judged the 14C cat once, (I uaually enter in it making me ineligible to judge it) and I have found that most of the entries are much to tame for the category. Whenever I ask the judges after the flight what they thought of the beers, the response is usually the same- "does everyone know the hop shortage is over?" There are some great commercial examples that are "imperial" but well balanced and mellow, to do well in this category for comp, I think it needs to have absurd levels of bitterness and aroma. The BJCP guidelines actually use the words "absurdly high", so I think this beer has the ability to be a contender!
#14
Posted 11 December 2009 - 01:19 PM
#15
Posted 11 December 2009 - 01:56 PM
Sure, but the calculations aren't telling you anything except that you're putting more hops in it. What use is that? The other moral of the story is that we need someone to create a better correlation for alpha acid solubility.I wouldn't say they are pretty much useless in the context of two beers being very different. My 100 IBU calculated beers with lots of late hops are quite different than this beer. If you made this beer without 150 IBUs of 90 minute bittering hops, I think you would have a noticeably different beer.
Edited by JKoravos, 11 December 2009 - 01:57 PM.
#16
Posted 11 December 2009 - 02:10 PM
#17
Posted 13 December 2009 - 09:05 AM
I'm not necessarily arguing against the fact that it gives you some relative comparison, but the purpose of IBU is to tell you the concentration of iso-alpha acids in solution. You can only use it for comparisons if you are adding the hops at the exact time from batch to batch. The variation in flavors between a '100' IBU beer and a '200' IBU beer is probably mostly due to aroma and flavor compounds, as opposed to iso-alpha acids.I think it is a good relative gauge, because in my experience, the beers are different, so for the purpose of comparison, I think the numbers are useful.
#18
Posted 13 December 2009 - 09:43 AM
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