20 replies to this topic

[matt6150]

Heres a pic of my mash tun/ copper manifold. Ive been using this for awhile now. I had a bunch of grains cracked from my LHBS. I couldn't get better than 55%. After talking to my LHBS (cough Jess cough) he told me they had grain mill problems and have fixed it. He assured me I wouldn't get less than 75%. Well I brewed yesterday and got 61%. Getting really aggravated at this point. I just want to eliminate my copper manifold as being any part of the problem. What do you guys think?

[BrewerGeorge]

If you batch sparge, there is a 0% chance the manifold is the problem. If you fly, maybe slightly more, but still probably not.

[stellarbrew]

Not saying that this is contributing to your efficiency problems, but if you point those slots downward you should be able to draw your wort from the bottom of the tun, which will mean less lost wort below the manifold. But as I'm looking again, I see that the manifold is not hooked up to a drain, and the drain seems to be 90 degrees from the manifold outlet. Do you use a hose to span the distance?

[DaBearSox]

I would ask them to do a double crush. Also, I would calibrate your thermometer sometimes efficiency problems are b/c you are mashing at too high or too low of temperatures.

[Deerslyr]

I'm curious about the construction too. Do you siphon the wort out??? I don't see anything going through the wall of the cooler. Also, as noted, the slots should be facing the bottom, not the top. I'm guessing that even if you do a siphon, if your slots are facing downwards your efficiency will increase significantly.

[Deerslyr]

Not saying that this is contributing to your efficiency problems, but if you point those slots downward you should be able to draw your wort from the bottom of the tun, which will mean less lost wort below the manifold. But as I'm looking again, I see that the manifold is not hooked up to a drain, and the drain seems to be 90 degrees from the manifold outlet. Do you use a hose to span the distance?

I believe the slots facing up ARE the source of the problem.

[BrewerGeorge]

I believe the slots facing up ARE the source of the problem.

I disagree. It IS unusual, but it's not going to cause a 20% drop in efficiency. Slots up can cause two things: 1) slightly less wort draining out before siphon is broken 2) slightly higher chance for the mash to stick because of grains clogging the slits.1) is maybe a 1/2" of wort lost. I'd be surprised if it's a quart total. Nowhere near 20% efficiency.2) should not be relevant because wort is obviously draining for him.

[dagomike]

The only issue would be how much dead your cooler/manifold makes. If after draining it's still sloppy, then you're leaving a lot of wort behind. Odds are though it's your crush or measurement error.

[matt6150]

I actually just turned the slots up for the picture so everbody could see the construction. I dont think that would be that big of an issue though. And I have never had a stuck sparge, drains really fast. Also I just hook a hose up to the end and it gets siphoned out over the side and down to the kettle.

[matt6150]

The only issue would be how much dead your cooler/manifold makes. If after draining it's still sloppy, then you're leaving a lot of wort behind. Odds are though it's your crush or measurement error.

It is definatly not sloppy after drained. How much water is typically absorbed from the grains? I used 13lbs. with the last batch and lost about 1.5 gallons due to grain absorbtion and/or deapspace. Sound right?

[BrewerGeorge]

It is definatly not sloppy after drained. How much water is typically absorbed from the grains? I used 13lbs. with the last batch and lost about 1.5 gallons due to grain absorbtion and/or deapspace. Sound right?

Sounds pretty much exactly perfect.

[dagomike]

Yup sounds like you're getting a good drain. Probably your crush or your measurement/calculations.

[Deerslyr]

I actually just turned the slots up for the picture so everbody could see the construction. I dont think that would be that big of an issue though. And I have never had a stuck sparge, drains really fast. Also I just hook a hose up to the end and it gets siphoned out over the side and down to the kettle.

Ok... so based on this, eliminate the positioning of the slots as the culprit. Am assuming that when you dough in, you are stirring plenty to make sure that there are no clumps. Assuming that, then likely is the crush and you want to live by the addage that "if you want something done right... do it yourself". That way if there is a problem, you can only blame yourself, right? I got a Barley Crusher and if I want a workout, I crank it by hand. Otherwise, I hook up the drill to it and it works just fine.If you continue to have these problems, the only other thing I would suggest would possibly be to have some some cross bars on your manifold. Looks like you have room for two or three more going across the center.

[Jimmy James]

I got 69% efficiency on my last 10-gallon batch. I had a great sparge. In the past when I was sloppy with grain measurements and water volumes I'd often get 80%+ efficiencies but once I started being stingy with my grain and measuring volumes accurately my calculated efficiencies have dropped closer to 70%. It could be that your LHBS - if they are measuring the grains for you - has started calling a pound of grain a pound of grain or it could be that their scales are off or something else. Did you change anything in your system, where you get your grain, how it's measured or how water volumes, evaporation amounts or dead-spaces are calculated?

[djinkc]

I agree with most of the above. Since no one asked, what's your sparging routine?

[matt6150]

I batch sparge, on the last batch I had 13lbs. of grain and doughed in with 4 gallons and let rest for 60 min at 155. Collected my first runoff, then sparged with 5 gallons at 180 degree water that dropped to 162 that I let sit for about 10 min then collected that. Got 7.5 gallons total. At that point the gravity was 1.040 after boil it was 1.050.

[djinkc]

I batch sparge, on the last batch I had 13lbs. of grain and doughed in with 4 gallons and let rest for 60 min at 155. Collected my first runoff, then sparged with 5 gallons at 180 degree water that dropped to 162 that I let sit for about 10 min then collected that. Got 7.5 gallons total. At that point the gravity was 1.040 after boil it was 1.050.

That sounds fine to me. Gotta be the crush, no matter what your LPOSHBS told you. My manifold is almost the same, I did put a couple cross pieces in that probably helped a tiny bit - but I fly. For batch that should be fine.Also FWIW, I use a rectangular Coleman and did find that after I started flying my efficiency went up. But I also started crushing the lights out of my grain, slowed the sparge, ect........ Just wanted to be certain you weren't doing a no sparge

[Zulu]

What is the PH of the Mash ? What size beer were you brewing ?? How is your volume measured ?PH, crush and accurate temp affect eff, and above 1.065 you will see a drop off in eff too. Once I started using 5.2 I saw 5% increase in eff........ after I bought my own mill and played around I regularly see 85% plus.Ask for a dble crush for kicks and giggles

[matt6150]

Well I figured it was the crush but just wanted to make sure. I wish I could get a grain mill right now, but being unemployed thats just not in the budget. Anybody know a good place to order grains online that gives a good crush? Wanted to order some soon.

[djinkc]

Well I figured it was the crush but just wanted to make sure. I wish I could get a grain mill right now, but being unemployed thats just not in the budget. Anybody know a good place to order grains online that gives a good crush? Wanted to order some soon.

If that place is the easiest choice for you just insist that they crush it twice. For a frame of reference most of the biggest chunks of grain I have are maybe a RCH over 2mm. And that's pushing it.