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Experimental Brewing 130 - A New Way to Figure Out Hops


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#1 denny

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Posted 07 April 2021 - 10:57 AM

https://www.experime...figure-out-hops

We took a week off from hops, but we could never leave them for long. With all of the new ways of using hops, the IBU (which was already a lie) seems increasingly inadequate to reflect the modern beer experience. We're talking to our friends - Sam and Marko, from Grainfather - to discuss a new way to calculate the impact of our hop usage.


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#2 jammer

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Posted 08 April 2021 - 07:39 AM

Man, a guy takes a mere 7 years off, and so many things have changed.  Hops, yeast.....  what next?


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#3 HVB

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Posted 08 April 2021 - 07:41 AM

Man, a guy takes a mere 7 years off, and so many things have changed.  Hops, yeast.....  what next?

Boil length


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#4 Mando

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Posted 08 April 2021 - 10:44 AM

Boil length


It's how you use it that matters.
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#5 jammer

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Posted 11 April 2021 - 06:15 AM

Boil length

 

 Care to elaborate?  No longer an hour?  Longer or shorter?  


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#6 Mando

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Posted 11 April 2021 - 06:22 AM

 Care to elaborate?  No longer an hour?  Longer or shorter?  

 

shorter.  I'm not sure how short drez goes but I often do 30 min boils.  45 min if I'm trying to get by with a little less bittering hops.  60 mins rarely - I guess if I feel like I need the extra water to get better efficiency?  I don't even know anymore.


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#7 miccullen

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Posted 11 April 2021 - 08:29 AM

shorter.  I'm not sure how short drez goes but I often do 30 min boils.  45 min if I'm trying to get by with a little less bittering hops.  60 mins rarely - I guess if I feel like I need the extra water to get better efficiency?  I don't even know anymore.

shorter mash and boil both


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#8 HVB

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Posted 11 April 2021 - 09:09 AM

Care to elaborate? No longer an hour? Longer or shorter?


I do 30 minute boil for everything these days, even lagers. I have been doing this for at least 3-4 years, maybe more. I have not noticed any issues at all. I have even done noboil NEIPAs because they do not need any bittering.
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#9 denny

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Posted 11 April 2021 - 10:55 AM

shorter.  I'm not sure how short drez goes but I often do 30 min boils.  45 min if I'm trying to get by with a little less bittering hops.  60 mins rarely - I guess if I feel like I need the extra water to get better efficiency?  I don't even know anymore.

OTOH, I never go less than 60


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#10 Mando

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Posted 11 April 2021 - 11:33 AM

OTOH, I never go less than 60


I don't think I notice a significant difference either way. Mostly just a time and propane difference.

 

I don't really put a ton of faith in this but it's a data point at least:  https://brulosophy.c...riment-results/

 

eta:  honestly the fact that he thought the hops were kind of garbage really makes me think this experiment is not great.  I'd want to do it on a beer that in general things seemed nominal.  no weird hop related flavors/aromas.


Edited by Mando, 11 April 2021 - 11:42 AM.

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#11 denny

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Posted 11 April 2021 - 12:17 PM

I don't think I notice a significant difference either way. Mostly just a time and propane difference.

 

I don't really put a ton of faith in this but it's a data point at least:  https://brulosophy.c...riment-results/

 

eta:  honestly the fact that he thought the hops were kind of garbage really makes me think this experiment is not great.  I'd want to do it on a beer that in general things seemed nominal.  no weird hop related flavors/aromas.

I prefer to do my own experiments and draw my own conclusions.  That way I know what the controls were.  I have done 20 minute boils at time by increasing the bittering hops by 50%.


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#12 Mando

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Posted 11 April 2021 - 12:27 PM

I prefer to do my own experiments and draw my own conclusions.  That way I know what the controls were.  I have done 20 minute boils at time by increasing the bittering hops by 50%.

 

unless I made both beers at the same time and really held everything else really constant I don't know that I'd trust myself.

 

so what do you think was different?  also, what beer/recipe was it?  It seems entirely possible that one style/recipe could be better one way and another style/recipe could be better the other.


Edited by Mando, 11 April 2021 - 12:28 PM.

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#13 Mando

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Posted 11 April 2021 - 12:32 PM

Drez, also interested if you have done any side by sides.  I went to 30 min boils for a lot of things and never really looked back (other than the occasional lager where I want the IBUs but not the hop presence) so I'm not a great candidate for proving anything :P

 

for drez APA I originally was doing 90 min boils!  that would be a great side by side to do.  90 min drez APA vs 30 min drez APA.


Edited by Mando, 11 April 2021 - 12:36 PM.

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#14 porter

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Posted 11 April 2021 - 12:46 PM

30-45 minute mash and boils here. I'll let the mash go longer if there's something else I need to do, longer boils are to reduce volume if needed. Just did a 30/30 beer today (Simcoe pale ale).

Edited by porter, 11 April 2021 - 12:47 PM.

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#15 Mando

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Posted 11 April 2021 - 01:08 PM

30-45 minute mash and boils here. I'll let the mash go longer if there's something else I need to do, longer boils are to reduce volume if needed. Just did a 30/30 beer today (Simcoe pale ale).

 

I usually time my brew day so I go do something else during the mash.  this usually means my mash goes 90-120 minutes depending on what I'm doing.


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#16 porter

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Posted 11 April 2021 - 01:18 PM

I usually time my brew day so I go do something else during the mash.  this usually means my mash goes 90-120 minutes depending on what I'm doing.

 

I do this sometimes as well, just depends on the day. Beer turns out good either way. 


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#17 Mando

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Posted 11 April 2021 - 01:31 PM

I do this sometimes as well, just depends on the day. Beer turns out good either way. 

 

not surprised :)


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#18 denny

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Posted 12 April 2021 - 12:01 PM

unless I made both beers at the same time and really held everything else really constant I don't know that I'd trust myself.

 

so what do you think was different?  also, what beer/recipe was it?  It seems entirely possible that one style/recipe could be better one way and another style/recipe could be better the other.

only thing I've ever done with a short boils was APA


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#19 HVB

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Posted 12 April 2021 - 12:36 PM

Drez, also interested if you have done any side by sides.  I went to 30 min boils for a lot of things and never really looked back (other than the occasional lager where I want the IBUs but not the hop presence) so I'm not a great candidate for proving anything :P

 

for drez APA I originally was doing 90 min boils!  that would be a great side by side to do.  90 min drez APA vs 30 min drez APA.

At some point I may have done a side by side but that would have been long ago.  These days I have a hard time brewing in general so I have no time for experiments.  I know 30 works for me so I just stick with that.


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#20 Mando

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Posted 12 April 2021 - 07:00 PM

At some point I may have done a side by side but that would have been long ago. These days I have a hard time brewing in general so I have no time for experiments. I know 30 works for me so I just stick with that.


I know what you mean. Just brewing as often as I can.
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