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Anyone use honey malt?


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#1 Poptop

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Posted 13 January 2020 - 07:34 AM

Saturday at the LBS I got a mixed bag; 5# Pilsner, 5# Pale and 1/2# Honey malt.  Sounded interesting and I like what I've read on it.  Designing a lager recipe with all of this along with a little Barke Munich on hand.  Anyone with honey malt experience?  Likes, dislikes, uses?

 

 


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#2 HVB

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Posted 13 January 2020 - 07:39 AM

Honey malt has always gotten a bad rap IMO.  I see it being used a lot recently, in a small percentage, for NEIPAs to give some color ans sweetness.


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#3 ER Pemberton

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Posted 13 January 2020 - 08:07 AM

Honey Malt is a unique malt produced by the Gambrinus Malting Corporation, a small malting company in Armstrong, British Columbia, Canada. It is made using a special process that develops distinctive flavors. The unique process puts Honey malt in the same family as German "œbrumalt" and melanoidin malt. The result is an intense malt sweetness free from roasted or astringent flavors, with a characteristic honey-like flavor and golden color. It really doesn't compare to any other malt. Its unique qualities and sweet maltiness make it a perfect specialty malt in many styles. It can be used for up to 10% of the grist but the flavor can become assertive at higher usage rates. 20-30°L

 

Funny you mention this because I happen to have a sealed, 1-pound bag of it in my specialty bin.  I agree that it got a bad rap and so I seemed to subconsciously stop using it.  But I have a blonde ale coming up later this week and a touch of it (4 ounces?) might not be a bad addition.  

 

Also, what is a "mixed bag"?  Did YOU design the mixed bag or did the LHBS put that together?



#4 miccullen

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Posted 13 January 2020 - 08:11 AM

1/2 lb is about max IME on a lager with that grain bill Poptop, adding the extra Barke Pils is a good idea, I'd say ti's make for a nice festbier


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#5 ER Pemberton

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Posted 13 January 2020 - 08:25 AM

There is a discussion HERE. It's about 5 years old so take it for what it's worth. The main point of that discussion is "don't overdo it". It can be assertive. Someone said "4 ounces in 5.5 gallons is about the max". As someone who generally likes dry beers, adding something that will bring "intense sweetness" would have to be done with a light hand, IMO.

#6 Poptop

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Posted 13 January 2020 - 08:32 AM

Funny you mention this because I happen to have a sealed, 1-pound bag of it in my specialty bin.  I agree that it got a bad rap and so I seemed to subconsciously stop using it.  But I have a blonde ale coming up later this week and a touch of it (4 ounces?) might not be a bad addition.  

 

Also, what is a "mixed bag"?  Did YOU design the mixed bag or did the LHBS put that together?

 

Go for it Ken.  I'd like to hear what you come up with. 

 

Mixed bag meaning I told the guy to throw it all in one bag.  Sorta forces my hand with a recipe which is a good thing sometimes because I change my mind too frequently haha

 

1/2 lb is about max IME on a lager with that grain bill Poptop, adding the extra Barke Pils is a good idea, I'd say ti's make for a nice festbier

 

Perfect.  Thanks for the tip and 'Fest' suggestion


There is a discussion HERE. It's about 5 years old so take it for what it's worth. The main point of that discussion is "don't overdo it". It can be assertive. Someone said "4 ounces in 5.5 gallons is about the max". As someone who generally likes dry beers, adding something that will bring "intense sweetness" would have to be done with a light hand, IMO.

 

The honey is currently about 4% of my grain bill.  Might consider amping up the bitterness.  Right now I'm around 20.


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#7 LeftyMPfrmDE

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Posted 13 January 2020 - 09:35 AM

Honey Malt is a like Melanoidin malt, IMO. a little goes a LONG way. if you use too much, the beer will be a big, chewy mess that will take an hour+ to drink. keep it under a half pound in your grist for a full bodied, sweet beer. 


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#8 Genesee Ted

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Posted 13 January 2020 - 12:40 PM

I use it in a NEIPA. It’s right about 3% just for some color and a touch of sweetness.

#9 ER Pemberton

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Posted 16 January 2020 - 09:22 AM

Hey, hold the phone.  A thought just occurred to me (which in my case doesn't happen often :lol:)... all of this talk of "sweetness" from the honey malt could be the answer to my 20+ years of trying to figure out how to make a decent fruit beer.  In the past, adding the fruit (or juice) to the beer would kick up a long secondary fermentation that continued until the beer dried out so much it was undrinkable.  Imagine a "strawberry blonde" or "raspberry blonde"... 2-row, maybe Munich and then 4-8 ounces of honey malt in a 5 gallon batch.  Then maybe at the end of fermentation, take some frozen fresh berries (not sure how much) and let them thaw and crush them in a pot, heat to 170° (or so) and then strain the juice out and add it to the fermenter.  The sweetness from the honey malt mixed with the tart/dryness of the fruit might balance nicely.  Have I gone loco?



#10 Poptop

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Posted 16 January 2020 - 09:43 AM

I could see this.  Or maybe a VERY decent extract for the fruit.  I think you'd want to hold on to the malty character as much as possible.

 

Based on all of the input in this thread, I'm still forging ahead with my mixed bag (1/2#honey malt plus 11# base grains).  I'm leaning on Crystal, Sterling and.....  Mosaic in the whirlpool.  Hoping the Mosaic and honey malt will play nice and I end up with a subtle candied mango fruit flavor.  Just and ounce of each in the whirlpool and a little Sterling to bitter.  Maybe 20 IBU total.


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#11 ER Pemberton

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Posted 16 January 2020 - 09:52 AM

I could see this.  Or maybe a VERY decent extract for the fruit.  I think you'd want to hold on to the malty character as much as possible.

 

Based on all of the input in this thread, I'm still forging ahead with my mixed bag (1/2#honey malt plus 11# base grains).  I'm leaning on Crystal, Sterling and.....  Mosaic in the whirlpool.  Hoping the Mosaic and honey malt will play nice and I end up with a subtle candied mango fruit flavor.  Just and ounce of each in the whirlpool and a little Sterling to bitter.  Maybe 20 IBU total.

I have tried to use extracts and I just can't get into them.  There are some that come from brewing suppliers and also some good ones like Olive Nation where they have a bunch of gourmet fruit extracts but I still feel like natural fruit juice is the way to go.  I also don't know how much to use.  I might get some fresh raspberries and freeze them.  Then put a recipe together and maybe instead of a blonde I'll do a "raspberry amber" where some crystal is used as well as the honey malt.  Hops at the start of the boil only.  Then allow the beer to fully ferment and then thaw the berries and crush them as best as possible and maybe strain them first, then heat the juice to 'sanitize' and add that to the fermenter, give it a swirl and let the yeast take out the sugars until it all settles, then keg it.  I'm spitballing.

 

Your beer sounds good.  The 8 ounces of honey malt concerns me but you could add a smidge of sulfate to make the beer a little 'drier' and if you had a decent amount of late hops, that could help offset the sweetness.  You should actually get some nice FLAVOR from the honey malt too, not just sweetness.  Keep us posted on it and cheers to you.



#12 Poptop

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Posted 16 January 2020 - 12:01 PM

Well as long as the fruit sugars don't dry it out too much, I think your ideas are good.  Agree an amber'ish beer would suit the bill much more.

 

I'm hoping 8 ounces is not too much.  Somehow I don't think it will be.  We'll see.


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#13 Genesee Ted

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Posted 17 January 2020 - 11:27 AM

I have tried to use extracts and I just can't get into them. There are some that come from brewing suppliers and also some good ones like Olive Nation where they have a bunch of gourmet fruit extracts but I still feel like natural fruit juice is the way to go. I also don't know how much to use. I might get some fresh raspberries and freeze them. Then put a recipe together and maybe instead of a blonde I'll do a "raspberry amber" where some crystal is used as well as the honey malt. Hops at the start of the boil only. Then allow the beer to fully ferment and then thaw the berries and crush them as best as possible and maybe strain them first, then heat the juice to 'sanitize' and add that to the fermenter, give it a swirl and let the yeast take out the sugars until it all settles, then keg it. I'm spitballing.

Your beer sounds good. The 8 ounces of honey malt concerns me but you could add a smidge of sulfate to make the beer a little 'drier' and if you had a decent amount of late hops, that could help offset the sweetness. You should actually get some nice FLAVOR from the honey malt too, not just sweetness. Keep us posted on it and cheers to you.

Just get aseptic raspberry purée from Oregon fruit. 2# per gallon

#14 ER Pemberton

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Posted 17 January 2020 - 12:30 PM

Just get aseptic raspberry purée from Oregon fruit. 2# per gallon

10 lbs in 5 gallons?



#15 Poptop

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 12:42 PM

Need yeast advice for this Honey malt exbeeriment that I'm planning for Saturday.  Grain bill fixed: 5# Pale, 5# Pils, 1/2# Honey, 1/2# Barke Munich.  Sterling to bitter around 22 IBU and Sterling and Crystal in whirlpool.  Mashing in the low 150 range. 

 

So with an anticipated honey malt flavor knocking on the door, my yeast choices are as follows:

 

Wyeast 940, Diamond Lager, Wyeast 1728 Scottish and Wyeast 3711 French.

 

I can envision anyone of them working, just want to hear your thoughts.


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#16 ER Pemberton

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 01:06 PM

Need yeast advice for this Honey malt exbeeriment that I'm planning for Saturday.  Grain bill fixed: 5# Pale, 5# Pils, 1/2# Honey, 1/2# Barke Munich.  Sterling to bitter around 22 IBU and Sterling and Crystal in whirlpool.  Mashing in the low 150 range. 

 

So with an anticipated honey malt flavor knocking on the door, my yeast choices are as follows:

 

Wyeast 940, Diamond Lager, Wyeast 1728 Scottish and Wyeast 3711 French.

 

I can envision anyone of them working, just want to hear your thoughts.

I can't say for sure but I will say this:  If there *IS* some 'intense sweetness', I probably would not want a low-attenuator.  I would want the highest-attenuating yeast you have and I would want to make sure my water wasn't leaning too far towards "chloride" and I would want a bit of hop crispness late in the boil, WP, etc. to offset that potential sweetness.

 

In the case I'm trying to make with the fruit beer, I personally might *WANT* to add more chloride, use a low-attenuating yeast, etc. because the fruit will dry out the beer so... always good to look at the specifics of the batch and determine how to best balance it.  



#17 Poptop

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 02:13 PM

All great input Sir.  My design has a SG of 1.050.  Out of all my yeast choices, the 3711 will at least get me to 1.004 = 6.0%.  1728 usually gets me to 1.010 = 5.2%.  I honestly don't think 1.101 with the Scottish would be a bad thing and would create a nice pale ale.  I'm sorta tired of 3711 only because I used it back to back.  Love it but need some change.


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#18 Genesee Ted

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Posted Today, 01:24 PM

10 lbs in 5 gallons?

Yup.


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