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dry hopping with cryohops


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#1 djinkc

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Posted 09 January 2020 - 01:51 PM

Any clue on how long it'll take for any effect?  I have them in bags from knee high nylons.


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#2 HVB

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Posted 09 January 2020 - 03:31 PM

I go commando with mine in the keg and I can tell a difference in 24 hours or less.
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#3 djinkc

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Posted 09 January 2020 - 04:40 PM

I go commando with mine in the keg and I can tell a difference in 24 hours or less.

Does it settle out halfway soon that way?  I only put an ounce in two kegs.  I haven't dry hopped in a while and have never used cyrohops.


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#4 HVB

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Posted 09 January 2020 - 05:24 PM

Does it settle out halfway soon that way? I only put an ounce in two kegs. I haven't dry hopped in a while and have never used cyrohops.


I use floating diptubes so it may be different but I can drink after a day or two. My dryhops are typically 1-1.5oz/g and that is a mix of regular and cryo.
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#5 djinkc

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Posted 09 January 2020 - 05:50 PM

I forgot you had them floating.  I wasn't really wanting a hops hit until Monday.  I guess I'll get what I get.  


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#6 denny

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Posted 10 January 2020 - 11:35 AM

I go commando with mine in the keg and I can tell a difference in 24 hours or less.

Same here.  No bag, 24 hours to get some effect, I usually leave them in 3-5 days at room temp.  I also ignore the "use half as much" recommendation and use them in equal amounts as I would T90.  Also, throwing in just a bit of American noble with them seems to round out the profile.


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#7 Mando

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Posted 12 January 2020 - 04:24 PM

Are American Noble the byproduct of cryo hops?
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#8 HVB

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Posted 12 January 2020 - 04:32 PM

Are American Noble the byproduct of cryo hops?


They are. They are very low alpha as well.
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#9 Mando

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Posted 13 January 2020 - 12:42 PM

They are. They are very low alpha as well.

 

I find it kind of funny denny is mixing them back together to get the result he wants  :P


Edited by Mando, 13 January 2020 - 12:42 PM.

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#10 Genesee Ted

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Posted 13 January 2020 - 12:45 PM

Same here. No bag, 24 hours to get some effect, I usually leave them in 3-5 days at room temp. I also ignore the "use half as much" recommendation and use them in equal amounts as I would T90. Also, throwing in just a bit of American noble with them seems to round out the profile.

I’ve found the same thing re: amount. It’s not really double strength IME but they are definitely more intense. Just not double. Another advantage to their strength is if you do decide less is more, there is less to worry about as far as hip creep goes. Cornell has been doing a bunch of research on it and gave a great presentation on the subject at last year’s NYS CBC

#11 HVB

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Posted 13 January 2020 - 12:47 PM

I find it kind of funny denny is mixing them back together to get the result he wants  :P

 

I still think you get less of the vegital matter than you would with regular hops, at least by weight.


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#12 denny

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Posted 13 January 2020 - 02:09 PM

I still think you get less of the vegital matter than you would with regular hops, at least by weight.

Yeah, that's the point.  You can control the ratio.


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#13 denny

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Posted 13 January 2020 - 02:11 PM

I’ve found the same thing re: amount. It’s not really double strength IME but they are definitely more intense. Just not double. Another advantage to their strength is if you do decide less is more, there is less to worry about as far as hip creep goes. Cornell has been doing a bunch of research on it and gave a great presentation on the subject at last year’s NYS CBC

My dry hopping method seems to pretty much avoid hop creep.  At least, I couldn't make it happen 2 different times when I was trying to get it to investigate.


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#14 HVB

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Posted 13 January 2020 - 04:56 PM

My dry hopping method seems to pretty much avoid hop creep. At least, I couldn't make it happen 2 different times when I was trying to get it to investigate.


I wonder if hop creep is somehow related to yeast strain. I know biotransform only happens with some yeast and since I hear of hop creep mainly with NEIPAs I wonder if 1318 or such strains accentuate it. Again, this could just be me guessing out my ass but it was a thought I had on the ride home.
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#15 Mando

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 04:10 AM

Could also depend how the mash went perhaps?
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#16 Genesee Ted

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 08:49 AM

It has to do with enzymes present on hops. They are denatured in the kettle and WP but can become a problem with heavy dry hop additions because they break down longer chain sugars which then become fermentable by the yeast. Again, this is with really big additions which are becoming more and more the norm with IPA.

Denny, you mentioned your method. What do you do?

#17 HVB

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 09:10 AM

It has to do with enzymes present on hops. They are denatured in the kettle and WP but can become a problem with heavy dry hop additions because they break down longer chain sugars which then become fermentable by the yeast. Again, this is with really big additions which are becoming more and more the norm with IPA.

Denny, you mentioned your method. What do you do?

I have also heard complaints it started when kiln temperatures were reduced.  My hop theory was because I do not hear about it with chico for instance but then again people using chico are most likely not doing a 10+#/bbl dry hop addition.


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#18 Mando

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 07:44 PM

It has to do with enzymes present on hops. They are denatured in the kettle and WP but can become a problem with heavy dry hop additions because they break down longer chain sugars which then become fermentable by the yeast. Again, this is with really big additions which are becoming more and more the norm with IPA.

Denny, you mentioned your method. What do you do?


I get that. What if your mash already broke things down a lot? What if it didn't? One of these would allow you to see a bigger hop creep if you did a big dry hop. The other maybe not?
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#19 Genesee Ted

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 10:31 AM

They contain limit dextrinase I believe which is not present in the mash.

#20 denny

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 02:26 PM

I wonder if hop creep is somehow related to yeast strain. I know biotransform only happens with some yeast and since I hear of hop creep mainly with NEIPAs I wonder if 1318 or such strains accentuate it. Again, this could just be me guessing out my ass but it was a thought I had on the ride home.

AFAIK, it's not. Pretty sure Shellhammer was using Wienstephan strain for his experiments.


Could also depend how the mash went perhaps?

Shellhammer used already fermented, packaged commercial beer for his tests.


It has to do with enzymes present on hops. They are denatured in the kettle and WP but can become a problem with heavy dry hop additions because they break down longer chain sugars which then become fermentable by the yeast. Again, this is with really big additions which are becoming more and more the norm with IPA.

Denny, you mentioned your method. What do you do?

I cold crash, then xfer to a CO2 flushed secondary for dry hopping.


I get that. What if your mash already broke things down a lot? What if it didn't? One of these would allow you to see a bigger hop creep if you did a big dry hop. The other maybe not?

Shellhammer used Coors (IIRC) for his testing.


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