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Bottling and CO2


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#1 Poptop

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Posted 26 September 2019 - 10:26 AM

I've decided to bottle a Saison currently in the works.  I find with Saison's and/or Belgians in particular, the CO2 from bottle conditioning appeals to my taste much more than kegging them.  I bought an air attachment today that I intend on fitting to regulator hose to shoot my bottles full of CO2 before I fill them from the picnic tap.  Does this sound like a viable procedure to curtail 'some' O2?

 

 


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#2 ER Pemberton

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Posted 26 September 2019 - 11:24 AM

It seems like a step in the right direction but I can't say.  I have been looking at things at lowoxygenbrewing.com and they are very detailed in their ways to eliminate or reduce O2.  This may not be relevant but there was some talk over there about how to get ALL of the O2 out of an empty keg before it's filled with beer.  The idea of filling the keg with Starsan and then pushing it out with CO2 was okay but it may have to be done multiple times.  Just filling the keg with CO2 and then releasing it was not sufficient... in fact, their findings were that you would have to fill the keg with CO2 and then release it TWENTY TIMES to completely purge the keg of O2.  Because of that, I went with their idea of connecting a keg to a line coming from the fermenter so that the keg would be purged with that naturally-occurring CO2.  I doubt any of this will help you but The good news is that there has been quite a bit of experimentation done on this so the answer is out there.   



#3 Poptop

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Posted 26 September 2019 - 11:38 AM

I have started purging starsan out of a keg with CO2 prior to kegging a beer and I think it is a very good and easy step to "help" prevent a lot of O2.  In my mind, it can't hurt to blast the bottles with CO2, fill and cap.  Assuming it would be better than not doing it haha.


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#4 ER Pemberton

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Posted 26 September 2019 - 11:41 AM

I have started purging starsan out of a keg with CO2 prior to kegging a beer and I think it is a very good and easy step to "help" prevent a lot of O2.  In my mind, it can't hurt to blast the bottles with CO2, fill and cap.  Assuming it would be better than not doing it haha.

Agreed.  It's definitely a good step.  It sounds like O2 control is a system-wide and process-wide procedure so as long as you've got good O2 control elsewhere in the process, this should be a good step.  Drez bought a canner (evidently cans protect beer better from both light and O2) and I think he was playing with a purging process too so hopefully he'll contribute here and let you know what he was doing.  Cheers Brother.



#5 Poptop

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Posted 26 September 2019 - 11:50 AM

Cheers


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#6 Mando

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Posted 26 September 2019 - 01:29 PM

The good news is that O2 won't be in there long. I'd suspect the yeast to scrub it out while fermenting the priming sugar.

Honestly I'm not even sure how you'd keep O2 out while filling even if you managed to temporarily Purge it.

Edited by Zsasz, 26 September 2019 - 01:30 PM.

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#7 Poptop

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Posted 26 September 2019 - 01:50 PM

The good news is that O2 won't be in there long. I'd suspect the yeast to scrub it out while fermenting the priming sugar.

Honestly I'm not even sure how you'd keep O2 out while filling even if you managed to temporarily Purge it.

 

I can agree with this.  Still think my idea is worth a try, can't hurt.  I've bottled enough without this added measure with much success so...............


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#8 Mando

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Posted 26 September 2019 - 03:32 PM

I can agree with this.  Still think my idea is worth a try, can't hurt.  I've bottled enough without this added measure with much success so...............

 

def won't hurt the final product.  I've tried purging bottles when I was filling off the keg.  I'm not sure if I was successful or not :P


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#9 porter

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Posted 28 September 2019 - 09:28 PM

def won't hurt the final product. I've tried purging bottles when I was filling off the keg. I'm not sure if I was successful or not :P


If the beer is pre-carbonated, I'd have to imagine oxygen contamination is very minimal. CO2 is denser than both O2 and atmosphere in aggregate, and will effectively displace them from the headspace as it outgasses.
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#10 Mando

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Posted 29 September 2019 - 03:50 AM

if there is a cap on there the O2 is still in the bottle though.


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#11 HVB

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Posted 29 September 2019 - 05:21 AM

If the beer is pre-carbonated, I'd have to imagine oxygen contamination is very minimal. CO2 is denser than both O2 and atmosphere in aggregate, and will effectively displace them from the headspace as it outgasses.


I have to look back but I thought it was proven they mix and that the CO2 does not displace the O2. Now, it could have been during the multiple low O2 threads so it may have been slanted for one side.
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#12 porter

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Posted 29 September 2019 - 07:03 AM

If that's the case, wouldn't it further render unnecessary purging the bottles?
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#13 Mando

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Posted 29 September 2019 - 07:39 AM

If that's the case, wouldn't it further render unnecessary purging the bottles?

 

I mean - trying to purge might reduce the O2 but unless your setup has a way to pretty fully get air out and then not let it back in while filling there is always going to be some O2 in there.

 

with regards to the OP:  the bottle conditioning will probably help scrub the O2 before it's done too much damage to the beer either way.


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#14 HVB

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Posted 29 September 2019 - 08:50 AM

If that's the case, wouldn't it further render unnecessary purging the bottles?

I would think so.

 

I would look into bottle spunding if I was the OP.  I may get yelled at this link ...http://www.lowoxygen...le-Spunding.pdf


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#15 miccullen

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Posted 29 September 2019 - 10:01 AM

I would think so.

 

I would look into bottle spunding if I was the OP.  I may get yelled at this link ...http://www.lowoxygen...le-Spunding.pdf

bottle bombs?


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#16 HVB

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Posted 29 September 2019 - 10:34 AM

bottle bombs?


Um, no.
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#17 Poptop

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Posted 30 September 2019 - 08:29 AM

If the beer is pre-carbonated, I'd have to imagine oxygen contamination is very minimal. CO2 is denser than both O2 and atmosphere in aggregate, and will effectively displace them from the headspace as it outgasses.

 

Not pre-carbed.  Bottle conditioned :)


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