23 replies to this topic

[3rd party JKor]

d-rest?

[albertv05]

Lager temps are too low for those yeast. 64°-68° is good. You definitely need to rouse up that yeast raise it up to 70° to clean up diaceyl and other components.

[ncbeerbrewer]

Lager temps are too low for those yeast. 64°-68° is good. You definitely need to rouse up that yeast raise it up to 70° to clean up diaceyl and other components.

I agree that if you are using US-05 at lager temps? 50-55 then you are saying you are fermenting way too cold for that yeast. 60 degrees is about as cold as you should consider. Are your fermentations slow as well? US-05 should be done in like 5-7 days most of the time. If you are fermenting that cold I think you do need to warm it up to around 70 and leave it sit for a couple of days. When do you notice the taste, do you taste it after fermentation and then again once on tap or in bottles and are detecting the flavor at both places? I do say warm it up since you have to be stressing the yeast when you use it that cold.

[Slainte]

How cold are you fermenting at? Is that beer temp or ambient?"Lager temps" is too vague.I've never had a problem with those yeasts throwing diacetyl. I would look into bacterial contamination as well.

[Thirsty]

From the BJCP study guide:DIACETYLCHARACTERISTICS: A butterscotch aroma and taste, and a slickness on the palate. Not desired in excessive quantities.CAUSES: A normal product of yeast during fermentation, it is re-absorbed during the course of a normal fermentation. Another cause is the gram-positive bacterium Pediococcus cerevisiae and similar strains in cooled beer, young beer, and aging beer. Lactobacillus strains in the mash can also cause this flavor if the mash held at low temperatures (below 131 degrees). Note that the aroma/taste produced by all of these causes is indistinguishable.CHEMISTRY: One of a family of vicinal diketones. Presence recognized down to 0.05 ppm, but identified at 0.15 ppm.HIGH RATES FROM PROCESS: Underpitching of yeast; long periods of wort cooling (overnight); contamination from equipment; poor yeast strain; too-soon clearing (fining) of yeast (before it can reabsorb the diacetyl); too long an acid rest in mash; high adjunct ratio in wort; low fermentation temperature; premature lagering; any process that stimulates yeast then immediately removes it from suspension; use of contaminated sediment for re-pitching (bacteria coexists with yeast in the sediment).REDUCTION: Sanitation, quick wort chilling combined with adequate yeast starter amount (8 ounces of slurry to 5 gallons), adequate time for primary ferment before lagering or fining/filtering, all-malt recipe, higher temperature primary fermentation, pure yeast culture, washing yeast sediment prior to repitching.EXAMPLES: HIGH: contaminated homebrew; MODERATE: Sam Smith's Nut Brown Ale, Pete's Wicked Ale.

[jammer]

Eat popcorn when drinking. Problem solved.

[denny]

Lager temps are too low for those yeast. 64°-68° is good. You definitely need to rouse up that yeast raise it up to 70° to clean up diaceyl and other components.

I've had no problems with 05 at 55F. It just takes a bit longer.

[Thirsty]

I've had no problems with 05 at 55F. It just takes a bit longer.

When you ferm this low do you treat it like a lager and pitch much more? Airate more?

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Eat popcorn when drinking. Problem solved.

has to be buttered popcorn

[Slainte]

has to be buttered popcorn

Nah, that's taken care of by the beer.

[denny]

When you ferm this low do you treat it like a lager and pitch much more? Airate more?

Nope, I just use it as usual, other than giving it more time.

[Humperdink]

Nope, I just use it as usual, other than giving it more time.

same here, super clean at those temps. I start getting a little worried below about 58, though I have pitched and fermented at 55.

[ncbeerbrewer]

Sorry it took so long to answer.I did not have ANY trouble fermenting at those temps. That yeast is very durable it seems.I noticed the taste after I had already kegged and carbed. I did not notice the flavor as much when checking the hyrdo samples though it sounds weird I understand, but none the less it is there in the finished product. As was stated, this yeast will make a super clean lager style brew just remember to d-rest the damn thing just as you would any lager. the primary temps were at about 55 degrees. I did use yeast hulls when i rehydrated the yeast so I think that help tremendously.

Well one thing I think I notice is that after force carbing a beer the flavors stand out a bit more so maybe it was there in the hydro sample but not as detectable too. Its good that you didnt have trouble fermenting at that temp with US-05 as well. I think I would just say try and do the 70 degree d rest the next time and see if that clears up your problem. I have to ask though, what are yeast hulls? and how did you use them for rehydrating yeast? Sorry just never heard of that.

[ncbeerbrewer]

Yeast hulls are essentially dead yeast. You are supposed to boil them when rehydrating or making a starter. It adds zinc and some other nutrients essential to yeast health. Your LHBS should have something like this in stock if they also supply for winemaking. you can also add them to the boil itself, but I usually just add them starters and the ryhydration process for dry yeast.Yeast hulls 1More Beer link

Thanks Matt. Makes sense, I might need to try some for the next starter.

[Thirsty]

More Beer link

I think it very ironic they put an expiration on dead yeast.

[Stout_fan]

One thing I've started doing is throwing in a Tbsp of bakers yeast into my keggle after the hot break. I get it by the half kilo at Costco for $7 or something. Simple cheap and I can even use it for baking too (go figure). It's the same stuff as servo or hulls after you boil and kill it.