18 replies to this topic

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

So here is what I do:1. I go to the LHBS and buy some liquid yeast.2. I make a starter that is a little bit larger than it needs to be and let it ferment out (stir plate).3. I cold crash the flask for a few days and decant the "beer"4. I stir up what's left and stick it in a sanitized mason jar that goes into the fridge5. When it's time to pitch the yeast (usually a day or two after putting the yeast into the mason jar) I stir everything up in the mason jar and pitch about 2/3 of what's there into the beer.6. The remaining 1/3 gets saved and I start back at step 2 for the next beer.I don't do any yeast washing. Is it necessary here? Since these are starters and the goal is to make yeast I suspect there isn't too much trub in my flask and mason jars. Does anyone have any thoughts? Thanks.

[Big Nake]

Zym: This kind of talk occupies my mind more often than I'd like. I think I started a thread awhile back about the mysteries of yeast. Since I don't live in a lab or possess any of the skills required to properly analyse yeast, I always figure I'm missing something. I like the sound of your routine because the yeast that you're saving is "fresh"... that is, it hasn't been used for fermentation yet and you can assume it's not contaminated (not really, but moreso than yeast that has been "used"). When I make a starter, I use the whole thing. Then I take some of the yeast that has collected at the bottom of the primary and harvest that (I have washed or "rinsed" before and don't see a difference) and then use some of that harvested yeast on the next batch either saving or discarding the rest. My new yeast policy is to only pitch between 200ml and 300ml of slurry and no more. That goes back to that other thread where I express concern over using too much yeast.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Zym: This kind of talk occupies my mind more often than I'd like. I think I started a thread awhile back about the mysteries of yeast. Since I don't live in a lab or possess any of the skills required to properly analyse yeast, I always figure I'm missing something. I like the sound of your routine because the yeast that you're saving is "fresh"... that is, it hasn't been used for fermentation yet and you can assume it's not contaminated (not really, but moreso than yeast that has been "used"). When I make a starter, I use the whole thing. Then I take some of the yeast that has collected at the bottom of the primary and harvest that (I have washed or "rinsed" before and don't see a difference) and then use some of that harvested yeast on the next batch either saving or discarding the rest. My new yeast policy is to only pitch between 200ml and 300ml of slurry and no more. That goes back to that other thread where I express concern over using too much yeast.

Nothing is stopping you from doing it my way (patent pending).

[Big Nake]

Right. It's the new ZymYeastâ„¢ method for me!Hey... does it work? Do your subsequent batches come out well? If so, good stuff.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Right. It's the new ZymYeast™ method for me!Hey... does it work? Do your subsequent batches come out well? If so, good stuff.

I've used some 1056 for 6 or 7 batches now. I haven't had my latest batch using it but the one before that didn't seem to have any issues in taste or attenuation. The yeast starters still smell good as well so I don't think I've contaminated it too much.

[3rd party JKor]

Thus far, I like slants. It's nice that you can make a bunch of them all at once and have yeast for a year all ready to go. They're a little tougher to get started than just going from a slurry since you need an additional 1-2 step ups, but like any starter, you just need to plan ahead. I think I'm going to try to do a slanting session this week. I'll probably slant 3-4 strains and since I rinse my yeast and repitch, those 15-20 slants will probably last me 20+ batches before I have to reslant them.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Thus far, I like slants. It's nice that you can make a bunch of them all at once and have yeast for a year all ready to go. They're a little tougher to get started than just going from a slurry since you need an additional 1-2 step ups, but like any starter, you just need to plan ahead. I think I'm going to try to do a slanting session this week. I'll probably slant 3-4 strains and since I rinse my yeast and repitch, those 15-20 slants will probably last me 20+ batches before I have to reslant them.

The multiple step ups would be what would keep me from doing the slant thing.

[jasonrobertcohen]

The multiple step ups would be what would keep me from doing the slant thing.

This is where pressure cooked starter wort would come in handy. I can make 5 cans of 450mL starter wort in my pressure cooker in about 30 minutes. My process has been to make a flasked starter from DME, cooling, and making two batches of pressure cooked starters at the same time (total time: 1 hour, yielding a large starter and 10 jars). Needing a really big starter is a great excuse for simultaneously making up new jars of starter rather than using several jars for the large starter. On the cases where I need smaller starters, I just use from my inventory and spend about 10 minutes to clean a flask and mix up the starter - no heating or cooling needed. With smaller sizes for the jars, I can use 1, 2, 3, or even 4 at a time to approximate the amount needed for a step.

[3rd party JKor]

+1, canned starter wort is great.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

+1, canned starter wort is great.

more equipment nnnooooooooooo

[3rd party JKor]

more equipment nnnooooooooooo

yessssss!!!!!!!!!C'mon, you can get a pressure cooker at a thrift store for like $7. You know you want it!!!

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

yessssss!!!!!!!!!C'mon, you can get a pressure cooker at a thrift store for like $7. You know you want it!!!

I hate you guys! First thing is first though - I'm tackling my O2 needs next b/c shaking carboys is killing me!

[EWW]

I keep some strains with the freezing method since it is easier then slants IMHO. I have 2-3 master cultures that I use to make other generations as needed so there is no need to wash. I still can wort to step up the starters though.

[cavman]

I keep some strains with the freezing method since it is easier then slants IMHO. I have 2-3 master cultures that I use to make other generations as needed so there is no need to wash. I still can wort to step up the starters though.

Nice link, I'm going to have to start doing that.

[3rd party JKor]

I've read a bit about the freezing method. That also seems like a very good option.

[Howie]

I keep some strains with the freezing method since it is easier then slants IMHO. I have 2-3 master cultures that I use to make other generations as needed so there is no need to wash. I still can wort to step up the starters though.

I could see doing this if I had the freezer space. I doubt I would do it for everyday strains, but maybe for some of the seasonal strains that are hard to get (like my beloved WLP006 Bedford!). That would be awesome.

[xd_haze]

You don't need a cooler that big, just a styrofoam box to keep them frozen solid when you're digging around in the freezer.mike

I could see doing this if I had the freezer space. I doubt I would do it for everyday strains, but maybe for some of the seasonal strains that are hard to get (like my beloved WLP006 Bedford!). That would be awesome.

[Howie]

You don't need a cooler that big, just a styrofoam box to keep them frozen solid when you're digging around in the freezer.mike

Yeah, but the only thing we have is the freezer on top of our fridge. It stays PACKED already. We are looking in to a small chest or upright freezer.

[beach]

So here is what I do:1. I go to the LHBS and buy some liquid yeast.2. I make a starter that is a little bit larger than it needs to be and let it ferment out (stir plate).3. I cold crash the flask for a few days and decant the "beer"4. I stir up what's left and stick it in a sanitized mason jar that goes into the fridge5. When it's time to pitch the yeast (usually a day or two after putting the yeast into the mason jar) I stir everything up in the mason jar and pitch about 2/3 of what's there into the beer.6. The remaining 1/3 gets saved and I start back at step 2 for the next beer.I don't do any yeast washing. Is it necessary here? Since these are starters and the goal is to make yeast I suspect there isn't too much trub in my flask and mason jars. Does anyone have any thoughts? Thanks.

Zym, I've pretty much used that process for short term storage of strains that I use frequently and it works very well .

more equipment nnnooooooooooo

yessssss!!!!!!!!!C'mon, you can get a pressure cooker at a thrift store for like $7. You know you want it!!!

And yes zmy, we all know you want a canner. I picked up a good sized canner as well as a dozen quart jars for $10. Starters with canned wort are so easy.

I keep some strains with the freezing method since it is easier then slants IMHO. I have 2-3 master cultures that I use to make other generations as needed so there is no need to wash. I still can wort to step up the starters though.

I recently tried this freezing method with an old, tired sample of WLP001 just to see how the process went. I kept the sample frozen for 2 weeks and then brought it back with a little wort on the stir plate. Wow, it was very easy and the yeasties came back with no problems. I wasn't really too keen on the whole slant thing, but freezing, to me, is worth the little effort it takes. I recently moved my first lager out of primary and I rinsed the yeast cake, harvested and froze 3 vials for future batches. I'll be doing this on a regular basis from now on but with a small twist. I'll build an extra large starter as zym mentioned and then devide the yeast that isn't pitched into the current batch into vials for freezing, thus eliminating the rinse/washing step.