20 replies to this topic

[KSUwildcatFAN]

Getting drunk off my first AG beer. I'm not an experienced brewer by ANY stretch of the imagination. Of the 3 (4?) batches of extract beers I've brewed....always some "off" taste. Never could put my finger on it (metallic/sharp/something). In fact, on the old board I believe I started a thread on it. Anyway, there was something. Can't taste it with my AG brew. Luck, or extract? I don't know. I know where I'd put my $$. AG solved it for now anyway.

[BarefootBrews]

Won't comment on my state of response (drunk post or not drunk post). Glad that your first AG beer was so good. But I do have a question or two. When you did extract brews were they full boils? When did you add the DME/LME? Now that you are doing all-grain, was this a 90 min boil?

[RommelMagic]

Ahhhh, the "extract twang". I know it well. Some say it is only a myth. But just because someone can't taste it, it doesn't mean it's not there. Feel the power of the dark side.

[Big Nake]

Doing full-volume boils solved my extract-twang problem. I also switched over to using light DME with specialty grains... that, along with the full-volume boils brought me about as far as I could go with extracts. Using LME in a can may cause some issues and doing only partial-volume boils can carmelize the wort to a point where off-flavors can be detected. Glad to hear it's better... AG brewing solves some issues and creates some others. But I look forward to the process of AG brewing every time I do it. Cheers.

[KSUwildcatFAN]

I won't speak in absolutes, I can only say that my extracts had it and this batch did not. Granted, it's a small sample size. For particulars, all my extract batches were full boil LME and regular 1 hour boils. My AG batch was a one hour boil also.

[gnef]

Did you ever try late extract addition?And has anything changed with your fermentation side of things? For example, do you now have a temperature controlled chest freezer or something like that? (oxygenation, yeast starters, etc.)I have been thinking for a while (after reading some other people's posts on the subject), that the change in taste from extract to AG could be more influenced by maturity as a brewer and implementing good practices through experience that we just don't know much about when we are first starting out with extract. I have actually been contemplating trying an extract batch using what I know from my all-grain experience, and really just experience as a brewer, to see if I can make a comparable beer to what I do with AG.I know when I first started brewing, I was doing partial boils, adding all the extract at once, fermenting at room temp, pitching a single vial of yeast, did not oxygenate, etc. Now I am taking care of many more things as they relate to the flavor and 'health' of the beer.

[KSUwildcatFAN]

Fermenting exactly the same way, same container, same method of cleaning etc.

[Big Nake]

I agree, your sample size was small. But I brewed with extracts for 5 years (153 five-gallon batches, according to my notes) and I got very close to eliminating that flavor but still wrestled with it in some form or another. It's not a fluke. I went onto the boards many times between 1999 and 2004 asking about it and how to tackle it. AG took care of it and also opened up a whole new area of exploration and creativity.

[djinkc]

The twang is real but it can be avoided. Just don't ask me how....We have a brewer in our club that makes outstanding extract brews. In the last 4 years or so I've only had one of his that I suspected was extract - even then I wouldn't have bet on it.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

The twang is real but it can be avoided. Just don't ask me how....We have a brewer in our club that makes outstanding extract brews. In the last 4 years or so I've only had one of his that I suspected was extract - even then I wouldn't have bet on it.

I think fresh, quality extract is the key.

[Big Nake]

I think fresh, quality extract is the key.

That's definitely a plus. I seemed to have the best results with DME, although I don't know why. I must have gotten LME in every type of container you can think of... a can, a small plastic bucket, a mylar pouch, a plastic milk jug-like container, you name it. Some were better than others and the cans were usually the worst. But DME seemed to work the best.

[3rd party JKor]

It's probably been 8 years since i brewed an extract batch, but I have 12 lbs of LME and 5 lbs of DME that I just got in. The DME is really more for fixing AG batches that come up short on efficiency or adding more fermentables to big beers, but I wanted to brew something with the LME. I was thinking a Mild, but I'm still up in the air. I'm really curious to see if I get that 'extract twang' now that I have a very tied down process which avoids any of the typical compromises that new extract brewers are subject to.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

It's probably been 8 years since i brewed an extract batch, but I have 12 lbs of LME and 5 lbs of DME that I just got in. The DME is really more for fixing AG batches that come up short on efficiency or adding more fermentables to big beers, but I wanted to brew something with the LME. I was thinking a Mild, but I'm still up in the air. I'm really curious to see if I get that 'extract twang' now that I have a very tied down process which avoids any of the typical compromises that new extract brewers are subject to.

That would be kind of interesting - I wouldn't want to make a large batch though. Maybe 2.5 gallons or something...

[3rd party JKor]

That would be kind of interesting - I wouldn't want to make a large batch though. Maybe 2.5 gallons or something...

Part of the reason is to build up yeast for a Christmas Ale for next year (~1.090), so I'll brew a full sized batch.

[Big Nake]

It's probably been 8 years since i brewed an extract batch, but I have 12 lbs of LME and 5 lbs of DME that I just got in. The DME is really more for fixing AG batches that come up short on efficiency or adding more fermentables to big beers, but I wanted to brew something with the LME. I was thinking a Mild, but I'm still up in the air. I'm really curious to see if I get that 'extract twang' now that I have a very tied down process which avoids any of the typical compromises that new extract brewers are subject to.

JK: Many times I have thought of doing that. I was thinking some sort of forgiving beer like an amber ale, some specialty grains, maybe light LME or DME, three hop additions, etc. I would do the full-volume boil, aerate well, use a good volume of healthy yeast, watch my primary temps, etc. It might be fun to see how good of an extract batch you could churn out. But... I have had this idea for years and never did it. One reason is that I am addicted to the AG process now. If you make an extract batch, please update us on how you liked it and how the beer came out.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Part of the reason is to build up yeast for a Christmas Ale for next year (~1.090), so I'll brew a full sized batch.

Are you planning to wash the yeast or are you going to just save whatever is left in the bottom of the primary vessel?

[3rd party JKor]

JK: Many times I have thought of doing that. I was thinking some sort of forgiving beer like an amber ale, some specialty grains, maybe light LME or DME, three hop additions, etc. I would do the full-volume boil, aerate well, use a good volume of healthy yeast, watch my primary temps, etc. It might be fun to see how good of an extract batch you could churn out. But... I have had this idea for years and never did it. One reason is that I am addicted to the AG process now. If you make an extract batch, please update us on how you liked it and how the beer came out.

I'm the same way, I've been telling myself I'd do it for years, it just never happens. I'm dedicated now. I just need to pick up some yeast and get a starter going. I think I'm going to try to do this in the next few days.

Are you planning to wash the yeast or are you going to just save whatever is left in the bottom of the primary vessel?

I rinse the yeast with sterile water.

Edited by JKoravos, 02 November 2009 - 07:24 AM.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

I rinse the yeast with sterile water.

How exactly do you not rinse the yeast away? Are you doing something like this: https://hbd.org/carb...ast_washing.htm

[3rd party JKor]

How exactly do you not rinse the yeast away? Are you doing something like this: https://hbd.org/carb...ast_washing.htm

Yes, just like that.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Yes, just like that.

so how long does it take the trub to settle but the yeast is still in suspension? I'm not sure if I don't get a lot of trub when I make starters or what but I sometimes can see no distinct layering going on.