16 replies to this topic

[djinkc]

It was an old recipe from when I resumed brewing again - just throwing together a recipe with not much experience. In retrospect it is a porter, brewed with 1007 but has corn in it. The original had flaked maize, but today I used coarse cornmeal from whole foods - probably polenta.Anyway, csbosox asked me last night if I was going to do a cereal mash or boil. Brainfart, I simply forgot about flaked vs. ground and gelatination..... Anyway it was too late since I had mixed some flaked barley, rice hulls and the grits together so I wouldn't forget them after I milled the grains.So, no iodine test but I did hit my anticipated gravity at 80% mash efficiency, which is what I have been hitting consistently with brews around 1.056 - which this was. Obviously, I got good conversion. The grits were 20% of the bill.I mashed for ~ 45 minutes. 30 with the first infusion and then started a EHERMS recirculation when the EHLT had reheated up enough. Then started ramping up for mashout temps around 45 min into the mash. Anyway that's what I've settled into here.So, did I get gelatination during the mash, whole food grits are already gelatinized, or what???? It would be nice to skip the boil or cereal mash when I get the whim to throw raw stuff in at this low percentage.

[MyaCullen]

It was an old recipe from when I resumed brewing again - just throwing together a recipe with not much experience. In retrospect it is a porter, brewed with 1007 but has corn in it. The original had flaked maize, but today I used coarse cornmeal from whole foods - probably polenta.Anyway, csbosox asked me last night if I was going to do a cereal mash or boil. Brainfart, I simply forgot about flaked vs. ground and gelatination..... Anyway it was too late since I had mixed some flaked barley, rice hulls and the grits together so I wouldn't forget them after I milled the grains.So, no iodine test but I did hit my anticipated gravity at 80% mash efficiency, which is what I have been hitting consistently with brews around 1.056 - which this was. Obviously, I got good conversion. The grits were 20% of the bill.I mashed for ~ 45 minutes. 30 with the first infusion and then started a EHERMS recirculation when the EHLT had reheated up enough. Then started ramping up for mashout temps around 45 min into the mash. Anyway that's what I've settled into here.So, did I get gelatination during the mash, whole food grits are already gelatinized, or what???? It would be nice to skip the boil or cereal mash when I get the whim to throw raw stuff in at this low percentage.

huh,it's possible the Grits were quick type, I dunno. you might have just gotten a spectacular conversion on the malt, but wouldn't that be nearly 100%? Dayumi'd think you got aleast partial conversion on the corn.

[djinkc]

huh,it's possible the Grits were quick type, I dunno. you might have just gotten a spectacular conversion on the malt, but wouldn't that be nearly 100%? Dayumi'd think you got aleast partial conversion on the corn.

At this point I think the mash temps must have made the starches available for conversion. In any case, I find this interesting, and something that shouldn't happen. Fun stuff for throwing around............ Or I need to get a life.......

[MyaCullen]

. Or I need to get a life.......

shhhhhhhhh

[boo boo]

Perhaps it had to do with the fact that it was corn. Ideally a cereal mash would be required for anything other than flaked adjuntsbut because corn gelantizes a bit faster, it could be that it did just that in the mash.From what I have been led to believe, rice do need to be cooked for a long time to gelantize unless you are using pre-cookedrice or flaked.

[drewseslu]

I'm guessing you had 'quick grits' or something.

[EWW]

So, did I get gelatination during the mash, whole food grits are already gelatinized, or what???? It would be nice to skip the boil or cereal mash when I get the whim to throw raw stuff in at this low percentage.

Yep, corn gelatinizes at around mash temp ... between around 145-160F if I remember correctly. At one time I found a chart that lists the temps needed to gelatinize most starches ... I'll see if I can track it down for you.EDIT:P.38 in this google book

Edited by ewanzel, 11 April 2009 - 08:13 AM.

[earthtone]

well looky looky! Looks like you gelatinized your grits in the mash! You probably didn't get optimal conversion, but it was obviously enough! If it hadn't been grits (ie. whole grain) I think you would have had trouble.

[MolBasser]

Yep, corn gelatinizes at around mash temp ... between around 145-160F if I remember correctly. At one time I found a chart that lists the temps needed to gelatinize most starches ... I'll see if I can track it down for you.

This was gonna be my guess, and my question would have been "what is the gelatinization temp of corn".I look forward to the answer.BrewBasser

[drewseslu]

Look upwards for the answer...or backwards....I suppose if the kernels were ground to sufficiently small 'grits' this would work just fine. Whenever I brew my Cream Ale I do a full cereal mash...I'm considering reconsidering...

[djinkc]

Well, that answers my question. And now I can stop scratching my head wondering about unmalted wheat in Wits........

Edited by dj in kc, 11 April 2009 - 08:37 AM.

[MolBasser]

Sweet.BrewBasser

[boo boo]

I was under the impression that rice gelantizes at a higher temperture than that posted above, and the time to do sois like 45 minutes at boiling tempertures.Was that chart for grits and whole rice or the flaked version?

[MyaCullen]

slightly OT, but I have done a little research into it and there is at least one saki brewer that simply soaks theirrice for 24 hours to gelatinize it prior to adding the koji to it.I did a test batch using white popcorn, white rice, ground coursely, and soaked in cold water for 24 hours prior to adding liquid Beano enzyme , and 3% by weight of sucrose, and Champagne EC-1118 yeast. I was able to reach 10% ABV with this method, and never cooked any of the grain.

[MyaCullen]

I was under the impression that rice gelantizes at a higher temperture than that posted above, and the time to do sois like 45 minutes at boiling tempertures.Was that chart for grits and whole rice or the flaked version?

the flaked are pre-gelatinized , so I would assume the chart is referencing the raw version

[denny]

This article https://cdavies.word...6/10/05/starch/ says the gelatinization temp for corn is 62-70F (143-158F). Mash temps, basically.....EDIT: as has already been said!

Edited by denny, 11 April 2009 - 12:32 PM.

[Yeasty Boy]

As I understand it, you need some small amount of amylase during the gelatinization process, before you try to convert the starches. This would suggest doughing in with your adjunct and small amount of malt ~10:1, hitting gel temp and holding, then adding the rest of the grist and hitting sacch temp. (With some of these there's a high amount of glucans, so starting down there and double infusing might get a better result.)