31 replies to this topic

[43hertz]

I really liked the Paulaner, Bob's 47 was good if not malty enough.Had 3 Schlafly's last night. Meh, not horrible, but not great.

[MtnBrewer]

why not just make your own? you have the technology and it will probably be closer to what you want.

Make my own?! Sir you know good and well that it is not humanly possible to make your own beer!

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Make my own?! Sir you know good and well that it is not humanly possible to make your own beer!

I've heard this before

[Big Nake]

This year I had my own, Paulaner and Sam Adams. I love Paulaner Oktober and I think it's the benchmark for me. Nice color, malty flavor and just yummy. I thought the Sam Adams was good, but I started to wonder why it was so dark. This is not a real issue, but I wonder if it was decocted (I assume it was) or if they just used a lot of specialty grains in it. The more I talk with seasoned veterans, the more I realize that specialty grains should be used sparingly and it seems to me that many of the authentic Bavarian Oktobers are paler than some of these that you see in the states. My own Oktober was placed in the draft fridge on September 19 (the actual anniversary of the wedding of beloved Princess Therese and Prince Ludwig and the first official day of Oktoberfest in Munich) and when it blew (about 2 weeks later), I could swear that the keg still had 2-3 gallons left in it. Honestly, I don't know where it went. I did have my sisters and my 23-year-old nephew over during that time and we were hitting the Oktoberfest Lager, but I can't believe how fast it went. I need to make more, clearly. Good thread!

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

This year I had my own, Paulaner and Sam Adams. I love Paulaner Oktober and I think it's the benchmark for me. Nice color, malty flavor and just yummy. I thought the Sam Adams was good, but I started to wonder why it was so dark. This is not a real issue, but I wonder if it was decocted (I assume it was) or if they just used a lot of specialty grains in it. The more I talk with seasoned veterans, the more I realize that specialty grains should be used sparingly and it seems to me that many of the authentic Bavarian Oktobers are paler than some of these that you see in the states. My own Oktober was placed in the draft fridge on September 19 (the actual anniversary of the wedding of beloved Princess Therese and Prince Ludwig and the first official day of Oktoberfest in Munich) and when it blew (about 2 weeks later), I could swear that the keg still had 2-3 gallons left in it. Honestly, I don't know where it went. I did have my sisters and my 23-year-old nephew over during that time and we were hitting the Oktoberfest Lager, but I can't believe how fast it went. I need to make more, clearly. Good thread!

when you refer to using specialty grains sparingly are you talking about all beers or O'fests in particular?

[Big Nake]

Generally all beers. There is no rule or guideline here, but when I see a recipe for 5-gallons that has 4 lbs of specialty grains, I get suspicious. Oktoberfest Lager may be a bad example, but the color you see in an Oktober is probably coming from Munich malt, some pilsner malt, probably a decoction process, etc. I wonder if people see that color and think that it's 2 lbs of CaraMunich or something. The more recipes I formulate, the more emphasis I put on base grains and use specialties less. I don't consider Munich, Vienna or Wheat to be specialty grains. As I go back and look at some of my recipes, the most amount of specialties I'll use (in 5 gals) is about a pound, give or take. There was a thread not long ago where someone had a 5-gallon recipe with 3 pounds of crystal 10°L (or 20L) and another 2-3 pounds of another specialty grain... Holy Smokes!

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Generally all beers. There is no rule or guideline here, but when I see a recipe for 5-gallons that has 4 lbs of specialty grains, I get suspicious. Oktoberfest Lager may be a bad example, but the color you see in an Oktober is probably coming from Munich malt, some pilsner malt, probably a decoction process, etc. I wonder if people see that color and think that it's 2 lbs of CaraMunich or something. The more recipes I formulate, the more emphasis I put on base grains and use specialties less. I don't consider Munich, Vienna or Wheat to be specialty grains. As I go back and look at some of my recipes, the most amount of specialties I'll use (in 5 gals) is about a pound, give or take. There was a thread not long ago where someone had a 5-gallon recipe with 3 pounds of crystal 10°L (or 20L) and another 2-3 pounds of another specialty grain... Holy Smokes!

I recently made an oatmeal stout (quiet storm) that has ~3lbs of specialty grains for 5 gallons. I actually thought this was getting to be a little much but the recipe has such great feedback I decided to go for it. Normally I don't use more than 2lbs of specialty in my 5 gallon beers.

[Big Nake]

I think there are exceptions and the style of the beer will dictate that. I'm not into stouts, but you clearly need more than just base grains for that style. The Quiet Storm is a homebrewing classic so if it calls for 3 lbs of specialties, there's a good reason for it. It also depends on what you consider a "specialty grain". Are corn or rice a specialty? Torrified wheat? I think all of those are considered "adjuncts". The other thread I mentioned was the "Holitastic" beer in the recipe forum. I would like to hear back from him after he samples this beer, but he used 3 lbs of C20°L and a pound of Black Malt. This is certainly pushing the limits, but not necessarily everyone would agree. He may make the beer he envisioned which is the beauty of the hobby, afterall. Cheers.

[BigDaddyD]

Well, I know that Hoptober by New Belgium is not an Oktoberfest......but it's their fall seasonal, and I think it's awesome.As far as a beer that can be considered an actual Oktoberfest, Bob's 47 is my favorite. Mighty, mighty tasty.

+1000 Hoptoberfest was freaking awesome, but a golden ale.... uh I have had Leinenkugel's octoberfest and it is decent, Sprecher usually makes a good one but most people can't get at it and I haven't had it this year yet. I will be trying Lakefront brewery's version too but again most people can't get at it.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

I think there are exceptions and the style of the beer will dictate that. I'm not into stouts, but you clearly need more than just base grains for that style. The Quiet Storm is a homebrewing classic so if it calls for 3 lbs of specialties, there's a good reason for it. It also depends on what you consider a "specialty grain". Are corn or rice a specialty? Torrified wheat? I think all of those are considered "adjuncts". The other thread I mentioned was the "Holitastic" beer in the recipe forum. I would like to hear back from him after he samples this beer, but he used 3 lbs of C20°L and a pound of Black Malt. This is certainly pushing the limits, but not necessarily everyone would agree. He may make the beer he envisioned which is the beauty of the hobby, afterall. Cheers.

well - it's not too tough to make a stout without a lot of specialty grains. It doesn't take a lot of roasted barely to get the job done

[MtnBrewer]

Generally all beers. There is no rule or guideline here, but when I see a recipe for 5-gallons that has 4 lbs of specialty grains, I get suspicious. Oktoberfest Lager may be a bad example, but the color you see in an Oktober is probably coming from Munich malt, some pilsner malt, probably a decoction process, etc. I wonder if people see that color and think that it's 2 lbs of CaraMunich or something. The more recipes I formulate, the more emphasis I put on base grains and use specialties less. I don't consider Munich, Vienna or Wheat to be specialty grains. As I go back and look at some of my recipes, the most amount of specialties I'll use (in 5 gals) is about a pound, give or take. There was a thread not long ago where someone had a 5-gallon recipe with 3 pounds of crystal 10°L (or 20L) and another 2-3 pounds of another specialty grain... Holy Smokes!

From a purely BJCP standpoint and speaking strictly about festbiers, caramel flavors are inappropriate in that style. Now, I'm not saying that the BJCP is the end all/be all for beer styles. Many of my beers wouldn't fit anywhere in the guidelines except for maybe Cat 23. However, I think in this case, the BJCP does a good job of defining what the traditional, classic Marzen should be. So I agree with your assessment that the color should come from some combination of Munich malt, Vienna malt and/or decoction. There is a difference between malty and caramelly and this style should be malty in spades.Regarding what constitutes a specialty grain, this is certainly open for interpretation and debate. To my way of thinking, a specialty grain is by definition something that you don't use very much of. If you used a lot of it, it wouldn't be a specialty grain. So in that sense, I think Munich, Vienna and wheat can be specialty grains when used (for example) in a pale ale to stiffen up the malt profile a bit. But when the malt constitutes a significant portion of the grain bill, it has passed beyond the realm of specialty grains. Again, I'm not trying to speak authoritatively here; just offering up my opinion.

[MtnBrewer]

I've heard this before

Then you should know better. I've got my eyes on you, mister.