18 replies to this topic

[stellarbrew]

Belgian beers and I didn't get off to a good start, but I have come to appreciate them more and more. So much so that I am feeling a driving need to brew one.My first try at brewing a Belgian style beer a number of years ago yielded great dissapointment, with the results of my efforts and expense being a couple of cases of an Ommegang Abbey Ale clone that is underattenuated, as sweet as cotton candy, and utterly undrinkable. I obviously didn't know what the hell I was doing.My question to those who would know is: how hard is it to brew a good Belgian style ale? A few of them that I have particularly enjoyed lately are Duvel, Unibroue La Fin Du Monde, Unibroue Maudite, and Ommegang Hennepin. I would love to brew a decent representation of one of these. Is this something I could reasonably expect to do without spending a lot of time learning new special techniques? I have been told that a good place to start is to read Brew Like a Monk, and I plan to do so. However, I need to catch up on some other reading first, so that book must wait for at least a month or so. Am I best off to wait until I read this book before I make a first attempt at brewing a Belgian, or is there a chance I might be able to get reasonably good results with a few quick pointers and a good recipe? Advice is appreciated.

[3rd party JKor]

Something like Duvel seems fairly easy. Sour beers are a whole other ball of wax. I drank a bunch of belgians when I was first getting into beer, and I like them, but they're certainly cost prohibitive. I don't love them enough to pay what they're asking for them. But now that I'm building up a good stock of my regular drinkers, I've been thinking about maybe brewing a few Belgian ales, like a saison or belgian strong golden. Jamil has a Duvel clone recipe in BCS. It looks pretty basic, the magic is in the fermentation temps. He recommends starting at 64 and slowly raising the temp up to 82 over the course of a week.

[Jimmy James]

Following on JK's comments about fermentation one of the keys to making good examples of most Belgian Ales is getting the proper attenuation. Many of the commercial Belgians are >80% attenuation, with some hitting 90%. A lot of brewers use simple sugars as part of the fermentables to help achieve this (this is done also to save costs by the commercial operations). Assuming you've made some progress in the fermentation area of your brewery since your last attempt, you should be able to get much closer to the goal. For Duvel something like 75% pilsener, 25% cane sugar with 30 to 35 IBU of Saaz or noble hops fermented with WLP 570 should get you there.

[cavman]

Following on JK's comments about fermentation one of the keys to making good examples of most Belgian Ales is getting the proper attenuation. Many of the commercial Belgians are >80% attenuation, with some hitting 90%. A lot of brewers use simple sugars as part of the fermentables to help achieve this (this is done also to save costs by the commercial operations). Assuming you've made some progress in the fermentation area of your brewery since your last attempt, you should be able to get much closer to the goal. For Duvel something like 75% pilsener, 25% cane sugar with 30 to 35 IBU of Saaz or noble hops fermented with WLP 570 should get you there.

You should be able to get the attenuation with lesssugar than that, I have a BSG aging that finished at 1.004 and is 12% ABV. Incremental sugar feeding in primary, high pitch rate and a warm ferment are keys.

[Jimmy James]

You should be able to get the attenuation with lesssugar than that, I have a BSG aging that finished at 1.004 and is 12% ABV. Incremental sugar feeding in primary, high pitch rate and a warm ferment are keys.

I agree - I use little or no sugar in my Belgians - but Stellarbrew's last Belgian attempt was majorly under-attenuated so I was thinking it may be best to stay on the safe side.

[tag]

Big enough yeast starter and temperature control is key. Start in the mid-60's and let rise 1-2 degF per day.Each yeast has its own favorite temperature range.If you don't brew pale beers often, you might want to check your mash pH carefully.

[cavman]

I agree - I use little or no sugar in my Belgians - but Stellarbrew's last Belgian attempt was majorly under-attenuated so I was thinking it may be best to stay on the safe side.

Didn't know of his last attempt, but low mash temps(long mash as well), aeration, a good viable yeast starter, warm ferm temps(start at 66-68 and let rise) and incremental sugar feeding should fix this.

[Patrick C.]

Go simple- 90% pils malt (mash at 150F) and 10% sugar to ~1.065, 25 - 30 IBU in a 60 minute addition (any noble or neutral hop), and ferment with T-58 yeast (dry Belgian yeast). T-58 makes a great blonde or triple. If you want to go to a higher gravity, use a higher percentage of sugar and consider incremental feeding as mentioned.

[cavman]

Go simple- 90% pils malt (mash at 150F) and 10% sugar to ~1.065, 25 - 30 IBU in a 60 minute addition (any noble or neutral hop), and ferment with T-58 yeast (dry Belgian yeast). T-58 makes a great blonde or triple. If you want to go to a higher gravity, use a higher percentage of sugar and consider incremental feeding as mentioned.

Agreed except on the T-58, for Duvel it should be Wy1338. T-58 would be a good bottling yeast on a bigger beer in this style though.

[Frogman]

I brewed up a Duvel clone last winter and it came out pretty good. Here is the recipe, and the link to the green board where I found it a while back.https://www.brewboard.com/index.php?showtopic=82220&st=0Style: Belgian Golden Strong AleTYPE: All GrainRecipe Specifications--------------------------Batch Size: 10.50 gal Boil Size: 13.13 galEstimated OG: 1.092 SGFinal Gravity: 1.010Estimated Color: 4.6 SRMEstimated IBU: 34.4 IBUBrewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %Boil Time: 60 MinutesIngredients:------------Amount Item Type % or IBU 27.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 81.82 % 3.00 oz Styrian Goldings [3.90 %] (60 min) Hops 17.0 IBU 3.00 oz Styrian Goldings [3.90 %] (25 min) Hops 11.8 IBU 2.75 oz Styrian Goldings [3.90 %] (10 min) Hops 5.6 IBU 1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10.0 min) Misc 2.00 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 min) Misc 6.00 lb Corn Sugar (Dextrose) (0.0 SRM) Sugar added to fermenter 18.18 % 1 Pkgs Belgian Strong Ale (Wyeast Labs #1388)Yeast-Ale Mash Schedule: Fly SpargeTotal Grain Weight: 27.00 lb----------------------------Fly SpargeSingle infusion mash at 150.0 FStart fermentation at 67-68 and let rise to 72-74 and hold.Add sugar to fermenter after activity in primary slows down.

[stellarbrew]

Thanks everyone for the responses. It sounds like this is something I can do pretty easily.

[MtnBrewer]

Whatever you do, don't use the Clone Brews recipe.

[denny]

Whatever you do, don't use the Clone Brews recipe.

+100 billion!

[stellarbrew]

Whatever you do, don't use the Clone Brews recipe.

+100 billion!

I will avoid that one for sure. That recipe must be a true disaster.

[3rd party JKor]

I never brewed anything from Clone Brews, but I feel like I've only heard negative reviews of the recipes.

[MtnBrewer]

I never brewed anything from Clone Brews, but I feel like I've only heard negative reviews of the recipes.

Some of the recipes are very good. Others not so much. For some reason the authors felt the need to include a beer from just about every country in the world and so about a third of the recipes are generic pale lagers like Kirin (Japan), Bin Tang (China), Golden Eagle (India), Singha (Thailand), Ngoma Tago (S. Africa), Medalla (Puerto Rico), Molson Ice (Canada), etc. Not many homebrewers brew lagers at all and only a very few brew that style. I'm not knocking the style but did we need 20 recipes that are all virtualy identical? The Duvel recipe includes pear flavoring. On the other hand, there are some pretty awesome recipes in there. The Geary's Pale Ale and Otter Creek Copper Ale recipes in particular are quite nice.

[Genesee Ted]

[quote name='JKoravos' date='14 October 2009 - 10:11 PM' timestamp='1255572675' post='191131']Something like Duvel seems fairly easy. Sour beers are a whole other ball of wax. From all I have ever read, Duvel is very difficult to clone. It is not because of the recipe (which I am pretty sure is published) but because of the process and fermentation control. Most homebrewers do not have the ability to automate fermentation programs based on gravity's relation to temperature, etc. From what I understand, their process control is over the top.

[3rd party JKor]

[quote name='doobahstop' date='20 October 2009 - 04:32 PM' timestamp='1256070760' post='196791'][quote name='JKoravos' date='14 October 2009 - 10:11 PM' timestamp='1255572675' post='191131']Something like Duvel seems fairly easy. Sour beers are a whole other ball of wax. From all I have ever read, Duvel is very difficult to clone. It is not because of the recipe (which I am pretty sure is published) but because of the process and fermentation control. Most homebrewers do not have the ability to automate fermentation programs based on gravity's relation to temperature, etc. From what I understand, their process control is over the top.[/quote]Pffft...I can do that.

[cavman]

ame='doobahstop' date='20 October 2009 - 04:32 PM' timestamp='1256070760' post='196791']Pffft...I can do that.

I think that brewing a good beer of the style is more important to most, rather than cloning. If I was to try and clone a BSG Malheur 10 from De Landtsheer would beat Duvel or Delerium anyday.