10 replies to this topic

[consumptionjunction]

Usually I tweak other tried-and-true recipes, but this will be the first attempt that I can call my own. I want it to be malty, like a Märzen, but with a bit more bitterness, without all German munich malts, and with either the Wyeast 1056 or 1335 ale yeast (fermented low 60s). But I've never used some of these malts before and heard they can make quite large contributions to flavor in small amounts. I think I'm playing on the safe-side, but if I can push it a little further to get closer to what I'm looking for, I will. Here's the recipe:

Fermentables: 86% (10.75 lbs) Maris Otter 6% (.75 lbs) Weyermann Caramunich II 4% (.5 lbs) Belgian Aromatic Malt 4% (.5 lbs) Weyermann Melanoidin Malt Planning on a single mash infusion at about 152F, and hoping for 6 gallons of 1.060 OG. Hops: 1 oz 5.6 AAU Cascade 60 Min. 1 oz 4.8 AAU Willamette 45 Min. 1 oz 4.8 AAU Willamette 30 Min. About 35 IBUs. BU:GU = .589

Any suggestions?

[Jimmy James]

Should be plenty of malt flavor with that grist. Do you want it malty like a Maarzen, or more malty? If more like a Maarzen then maybe drop either the melanoidin or aromatic. Any reason you picked a 45 minute addition for Willamette? They are good hops for flavor and aroma additions IMO so I'd drop the 45 min addition and maybe add some at 2 min for aroma. Maybe boost the Cascade to get back to your target of 35 IBU.

[consumptionjunction]

I wasn't entirely certain about the hops either. I planned those additions around the fact that I have a few pre-measured vacuum-sealed bags. I didn't really want to open another one, as I'd likely have an ounce more than I thought I needed. I also didn't think Maarzen had a much hop flavor or aroma, so I was looking to hit a certain IBU, have some flavor, and have little aroma. Most of my beers have been hoppy ones thus far, so I'm trying not to go overboard on this one. I'll look at a few more recipes for these styles online to see if I want to change this around... Thanks for the response. Any other thoughts out there? BTW, did I post this in the wrong section?

[cavman]

I wasn't entirely certain about the hops either. I planned those additions around the fact that I have a few pre-measured vacuum-sealed bags. I didn't really want to open another one, as I'd likely have an ounce more than I thought I needed. I also didn't think Maarzen had a much hop flavor or aroma, so I was looking to hit a certain IBU, have some flavor, and have little aroma. Most of my beers have been hoppy ones thus far, so I'm trying not to go overboard on this one. I'll look at a few more recipes for these styles online to see if I want to change this around... Thanks for the response. Any other thoughts out there? BTW, did I post this in the wrong section?

The grist should be fine, although vienna malt would really get you closer to a nice malty O'fest taste. As stated the 45 minute hop addition makes no sense and the 30 doesn't either, use the Willamette in the same quantities at 20 and flameout. A little hop aroma isn't going to ruin an O'fest like beer, use the 1056 and call it a German Ale.

[Jimmy James]

Given that you're using English base malt (and one with a lot of English flavor at that) and new world hops and fermenting with ale yeast, I would call this more "Maarzen inspired". That's fine - I think it could turn out nice, but since you're not using the typical grain-bill or hops I wouldn't worry about the hop schedule. If you want some hop aroma in the beer then put it in there - if not then don't. Like cavman I also like some noble hop aroma in a Maarzen. If I were brewing a Maarzen-ish amber ale (which is more like an Altbier) then I would personally put some aroma hops in it. FWIW I think this could turn out nice, and if you get it to ferment out at low temps it could be a nice new world amber "hybrid" ale sorta like an altbier but more balanced towards the malt.

[consumptionjunction]

Given that you're using English base malt (and one with a lot of English flavor at that) and new world hops and fermenting with ale yeast, I would call this more "Maarzen inspired". That's fine - I think it could turn out nice, but since you're not using the typical grain-bill or hops I wouldn't worry about the hop schedule. If you want some hop aroma in the beer then put it in there - if not then don't. Like cavman I also like some noble hop aroma in a Maarzen. If I were brewing a Maarzen-ish amber ale (which is more like an Altbier) then I would personally put some aroma hops in it. FWIW I think this could turn out nice, and if you get it to ferment out at low temps it could be a nice new world amber "hybrid" ale sorta like an altbier but more balanced towards the malt.

Definitely wasn't trying to make a Maarzen, but wanted something with similar traits. I was under the impression that I would get some aroma at the flavor additions, but didn't know how much, and didn't how much would be too much if I were adding it closer to flame out. This was something I figured I'd learn with experience, which I don't have much of yet as I usually do hoppy beers; and I usually like to approach new things with caution. What temperatures would you consider low for the amber hybrid-like style? I was considering using either the Wyeast 1056 or 1335 ale yeast. According to Wyeast, the low temps are 60F and 63F, respectively. By low do you mean lower than these values? I think I can assume that I'd have to pitch a quantity of yeast appropriate for the hybrid temperatures, but even with the appropriate pitching rates, will these yeast crap out at temperatures lower than specified?

[MtnBrewer]

Sounds like you're looking for something along the lines of an altbier: malty but dry. I think the advice given so far is on point so I don't have much to add. But I will say that melanoidin and aromatic malts are very similar, if not identical. So use one or the other but there's no need for both. I'd also limit any such malt to about a half pound because it can get overbearing.You mention that you didn't want to use any German Munich malt but I think you're doing yourself a disservice. If you're looking for rich malty flavor, that's the way to get it.

[consumptionjunction]

Ok. I think I've decided to move towards the Wyeast 1007 German Ale yeast. Didn't know about it until now, and I'm getting pretty excited about using it. I've also cut back on the malts a bit and changed the hop schedule around. This will probably be closer to an Altbier.90.4% Maris Otter4% Weyermann Caramunich II2.4% Belgian Aromatic Malt2.4% Weyermann Melanoidin Malt0.8% Weyermann® Dehusked Carafa® IISingle mash infusion at about 152F. OG: 1.060. SRM: 11.Hops:2 oz 5.6 AAU Cascade 60 Min.1 oz 4.8 AAU Willamette 30 Min.1 oz 4.8 AAU Willamette 5 Min.About 40 IBUs.BU:GU = .65Ferment around 57F.Thanks for the help, and I'd still be interested in a response to my question about fermentation temperatures in the above post.

[consumptionjunction]

Sounds like you're looking for something along the lines of an altbier: malty but dry. I think the advice given so far is on point so I don't have much to add. But I will say that melanoidin and aromatic malts are very similar, if not identical. So use one or the other but there's no need for both. I'd also limit any such malt to about a half pound because it can get overbearing. You mention that you didn't want to use any German Munich malt but I think you're doing yourself a disservice. If you're looking for rich malty flavor, that's the way to get it.

Thanks. I just posted my update before your response. I might cut back on the aromatic malt after your comment. The reason I'm not doing munich malt as the base is because I don't have a LHBS and don't want to get a lot of grains in bulk over the internet. I have a lot of MO from a local brewery that I'm still working through. Thanks again for the help.

[MtnBrewer]

Thanks. I just posted my update before your response. I might cut back on the aromatic malt after your comment. The reason I'm not doing munich malt as the base is because I don't have a LHBS and don't want to get a lot of grains in bulk over the internet. I have a lot of MO from a local brewery that I'm still working through. Thanks again for the help.

Yeah, I understand that but it's just not going to be the same. Pick up 5 or 10 pounds of Munich from NB or where ever. Whatever is left over can be used as a specialty malt in pale ales and other styles.

[Jimmy James]

With regards to fermentation temperature range, I would stay within the manufacturer's guidelines and not go below them. At least for sure I wouldn't push it on the first attempt with a yeast strain. In general, the lower you go (for temp) the slower fermentation will progress. It is probable that there will be less fruity character and less of other things like higher alcohol molecules. Thus, a cleaner, crisper beer. So, for this brew, staying in the lower range will be helpful, but if you get too low you risk the yeast not getting going or crapping out before the job's done. For example if the published optimum range was 61 to 68 degrees I would start around 62 and let it go as high as 65 or 66 towards the end when it is slowing down.