15 replies to this topic

[Jimmy James]

My plan is to parti-gyle an Old Ale and Mild. I am thinking around 1.090 to 1.100 for the Old Ale, and 1.035 to 1.037 for the Mild. Just curious how folks who've done this before have figured the numbers out. I have a 10 gallon system, and am going to make these each 5 gallons. I am guessing it's not as easy as adding the base malt numbers for each brew, doubling the specialty malts for the Old Ale, then after collecting 6.5 gallons capping with more specialty malts for the Mild. I just have no reference point for this, so any tips, experiences or calculations you may have would be much appreciated!Thanks! :blush:EDIT: FWIW I get 70% efficiency on my system, not sure if that matters for this though...

[Stout_fan]

JJ,Do you get 70% even on high gravity beers?I get only 55% on stuff around 1.100.It's important to know this to start.Hey.... Didn't I answer this once before?

[Jimmy James]

I get 70% on most brews, but I would expect a drop for something this big. Maybe 55% is a safe call. If you answered this before and remember the thread I would review there. I searched before posting and didn't find anything relevant. Thanks!

JJ,Do you get 70% even on high gravity beers?I get only 55% on stuff around 1.100.It's important to know this to start.Hey.... Didn't I answer this once before?

[jayb151]

I've done Partigyle twice and both times I just winged it. Lately, It was an old ale that I spiced for X-mas and I made a bitter wit hthe second runnings. I got ten gallons of 1.085 and 5 gallons of 1.032 of a "bitter." I pretty much just planned for the bigger beer, and knew there would be enough sugars left to get a small beer out of it. It was more of an experiment that a calculated process.

[Sidney Porter]

brewing techniques has an online article and chart by mosher, the chart does both color and gravity at 1/2:1/2 and 2/3:1/3

[Jimmy James]

Thanks for the input everyone. I did some searching around and found a no-sparge brewing article. Since the first bigger beer in a parti gyle is more or less a no-sparge brew, I figured I could use that as a starting point. https://www.promash....ge_Article.htmlIt's written for Promash users so it worked for me, or at least it should work. I did the calcs and got my recipe together, I hope to brew this weekend and will report back how close I got to my target. I'll be sure to have some DME on hand just in case my efficiency bombs more than I am expecting.

[tag]

Yes, it is basically batch sparging. Use the first runnings for the big beer and the sparge runnings for a second beer. If you do batch sparge, start checking the gravity of the runnings for data for future parti-gyles.I would recommend mashing at 1.25 qt/lb and use ProMash to calculate how many lb of grain will get you your pre-boil volume. I would expect the gravity of the first runnings to be in the mid 1.080's. I always get about half the gravity for the second runnings, so pre-boil 1.040's.

[Jimmy James]

Thanks for sharing your experience Tag. If I batch sparge it will have to be a total of 4 batch-sparges, two for each beer. At least that is how it looks given the constraints of my mash-tun and the amount of water lost to grain absorption. I am thinking instead I would fly-sparge and just catch the first 6.5 gallons in one kettle, then add capping grains, stir, vorlauf and fly-sparge until I collect another 6.5 gallons in kettle two. Any reason that wouldn't work in your opinion? If my second beer ends up about half the gravity I will probably add water to drop the OG since I want the Mild to be session strength. Hmmm, I'll have to see how it goes.

Yes, it is basically batch sparging. Use the first runnings for the big beer and the sparge runnings for a second beer. If you do batch sparge, start checking the gravity of the runnings for data for future parti-gyles.I would recommend mashing at 1.25 qt/lb and use ProMash to calculate how many lb of grain will get you your pre-boil volume. I would expect the gravity of the first runnings to be in the mid 1.080's. I always get about half the gravity for the second runnings, so pre-boil 1.040's.

[tag]

I am used to doing parti-gyle by batch sparging and using just the first runnings for the big beer, and just the second runnings for the small beer. Sparging at all will decrease the gravity of both.How big is your mash tun?

[Stout_fan]

JJ, sorry, didn't mean to sound like an ass.Anyway, start out with your # of points.Figure you're taking 55% of them away.(That's why I asked the question. It is important.)That gives you a new amount of sugar to work with.So at that point you figure what sort of gravity you would like to have.You have to play that off the efficiency you achieve at that gravity since you will leave that behind.This would give you the gallons of the brew you can obtain.And since you have already wetted the grain and are reducing the gravity you will actually get a bit more wort for each gallon you put in.At 10 gallons, I can count on 10 1/2 to 11 gallons of wort draining from the tun.OR after your first running of 12 gallons you can say I want a 10 gallon second running.At say your 70% efficiency that would get you so many points. Divide by your ten gallons and that will be your pre-boil gravity. Too light? just add less water. Naturally as you reduce this effective second sparge to lower volumes the efficiency drops off just like in the first runnings.IIRC the Samiclaus was 1.150 from grains at 50% efficiency for a 14.5 gal first running.We made 10 gal of 1.055 (1.058 or 60 post boil) into a really great pumpkin beer.

[Jimmy James]

Thanks Stout - I think I am running the calculations correct so far - we'll see on the weekend. I am not going as big as your Samichlaus so I am counting on 60% efficiency, but I am also erring on the side of a bit more grain so really if I get 55% I should still come close unless I've messed up the numbers.Tag, my mash tun is 10 gallons. I figure I need 6.5 (minimum) for a full 5 gallons post-boil & fermentation, and the grain is going to absorb a little over 4 gallons. I am not sure I can get the entire 6.5 gallons in one run-off from the mash-tun.

[tag]

In one of the recent zymurgys there was a chart that had the gravity of first runnings vs mash ratio. The thicker the mash qt/lb, the higher the gravity of the first runnings (and less efficient).This is how I figure it out.Desired original gravity = 1.080's so mash at 1.25 qt/lb (or check out the zymurgy chart for other ratios)Mash volume = 10 gallonsMash volume = mash water qts + # grain/3 (one # of wet grain is about 1/3 qt). 40 qts = 1.25 qt/lb + 0.33 qt/lb = 1.58 qt/lb = 40 qts,so 40 qt/1.58 qt/lb = 25.3#We can derive the volume of first runnings by subtracting the amount of water held in the grain from the inital mash water volume. In my system the grain absorbs 1/2 qt/lb. So the volume of first runnings will be 1.25 qt/lb - 0.5 qt/lb = 0.75 qt/lb = 19 qts = 19/4 gal = 4.75 gal of first runnings.You might consider doing this and just go with the volume that you get. The gravity will concentrate more with the same boil time than your usual 6.5 gal boil. Then sparge with 4.5 gallons and you will get 2nd runnings of about 1.040's. If you have a 2nd boil kettle you can have the 2nd runnings biling within 15 minutes of the first runnings.If you have another mash tun you can mash more to get your 6.5 gal pre-boil volume.Brew on

[Sidney Porter]

I have also added more grain to the mash tun after the 1st runnings to get a bigger 2nd beer.

[Sidney Porter]

I have also added more grain to the mash tun after the 1st runnings to get a bigger 2nd beer.

[orudis]

I've done it many times. If you google "mosher partigyle chart" you should find the predicted gravities for a 50/50 split or a 33/66% split. Typically I split the batch volume 50/50 and the first runnings are twice the gravitiy of the second runnings. Keep some DME on hand in case you miss your gravities. Good luck!

Edited by orudis, 11 October 2009 - 01:34 PM.

[chuck_d]

My spreadsheet can do some automatic calculations if you're using the Worksheet to generate your parti-gyle recipe, but the Formulas page of my site also has links to the three sites I based my math on: https://dieseldrafts...ml#partigyleHTH