25 replies to this topic

[Jimmy James]

Hi all and thanks in advance for any tips or experience you can provide. I am thinking about using a SS mash-tun for certain brews where I would want to perform multiple rests. It would be great to see what's working (or not working) for folks, and any tips or advice on how to go about this. I'd be using a propane burner for the heat source. I could invest in a pump or something to recirculate the mash - but I have no idea how people do this, and what design or hardware requirements it would have. How much of a PITA is it to stir?Ultimately, it'd be great to have something compatible with a tier system should I ever find the time to build one. Again, thanks for any advice.

[Sidney Porter]

i do but i don't really do many step mashes. But I do find it great to heat up the strike water, it has taken the thermal mass of the cooler out of the equation. When I do need to increase the temp, I turn the heat on low and stir, but that is only taking it up a degree or 2. When I have done the step mash it didn't take very long but I did stir the entire time, it didn't scorch.

[dagomike]

If you're talking about heating the mash-tun with a burner, that's a dicey situation. You have a good chance of roasting your mash. I tried this using a false bottom and recirculating with a pump. That works OK since the grains aren't touching the hot part of the kettle and as long as you can recirculate fast enough it should work. Ultimately I did a HERMS and I can reasonably do a step mash if I want. I usually only do it now if I want to do a beta glucan rest. I sort of do a mash-out too when I start to sparge. With all the step mashes I did, I never really felt it did anything for me, particularly the added time.One thing I really like about direct heat on the mash-tun is doing the strike water. I heat both my MLT and HLT at the same time.

[BFB]

I've always heated while stirring continuously without any scorching issues. I am just now starting to use my pump to recirc while heating. I did good last batch and didn't have any issues. I think with the pump it's a matter of getting good flow, without compacting the grain bed...then lighting the burner. Too little flow and you'll get pump cavitation as the wort gets too hot, too much flow and it compacts the grain bed.

[Recklessdeck]

Have you built the tun yet? I recently outfitted this kettle with a SS braid, and have been considering using it for step mashes as well.I don't have the resources to invest in a pump, but I imagine if I go with a wetter mash and stir constantly I'll avoid scorching. In fact, I'll be brewing this weekend, maybe I'll test it out...

[Lagerdemain]

I had initial success using a direct-fired mash tun by stirring constantly and heating *very* slowly. I found I was able to do this with no to minimal scorching, but it is a lot of work when you're thinking of raising the mash temperature by thirty degrees or more.

[Lonnie Mac]

I use mine quite successfully!The real trick to a direct fired hands off recirculating mash is to use a full false bottom with the controlling temp probe in the outflow from the direct heat... This way no part of your mash can never overheat beyond your set point...I would agree with Lager... If you are looking to step mash for the whole program it will work by just stirring, but that will make for a LOT of work on your right arm...

[Jimmy James]

Thanks all for the replies. I understand scorching can be an issue. The false bottom idea sounds like something I can implement. I haven't built anything yet and wanted to do my homework first. Lots of good points and ideas to consider here.

[3rd party JKor]

Steam.

[LBG Bill]

What is the advantage of using SS for a mashtun in a home brew situation? I see all the rigs with SS tuns and I've never figured out why. I still use 3 vessels, it's just that one is 60 qt plastic Igloo cooler and cannot be direct fired, nor does it need to be.I use my IC has my HERMS simply by heating my HLT and having my IC in there. That can easily be used for step mashing without the worry of direct-firing your MT.I've always wondered how someone mashes in a SS keggle and doesn't loose temp. I always have a ~7° temp drop in my cooler and that is simply due to equalization of the thermal mass of the cooler, but after that, it might drop 1° in an hour.Please don't hate, just explain.

[siouxbrewer]

What is the advantage of using SS for a mashtun in a home brew situation? I see all the rigs with SS tuns and I've never figured out why. I still use 3 vessels, it's just that one is 60 qt plastic Igloo cooler and cannot be direct fired, nor does it need to be.

Not hating Bill. But I have three vessels, one is a 10gl round plastic cooler and two are sanke kegs. The cooler used to be my mash tun, now it's an HLT. My sanke HLT is now my mashtun. The copper manifold I used in the cooler fit nicely in the sanke with little modification (longer dip-tube). By switching the two vessels, mashtun volume increased by over 50% which means I can brew stronger beers. I prefer to direct-fire my MT so I don't have to calculate temp loss during transfer from HLT to MT. I also do a RIMS with direct fire so SS is necessary. With a HERMS, it wouldn't be.

I've always wondered how someone mashes in a SS keggle and doesn't loose temp. I always have a ~7° temp drop in my cooler and that is simply due to equalization of the thermal mass of the cooler, but after that, it might drop 1° in an hour.

There is always temp loss, but mostly negligible over the amount of time the average brewer mashes which is typically 60 min. There are many options available for insulating keggles but I won't go into that here. A few towels or blankets can help out on a cold day. The thermal mass will carry over the duration of the mash without the need for serious insulation.

[Sidney Porter]

What is the advantage of using SS for a mashtun in a home brew situation? I see all the rigs with SS tuns and I've never figured out why. I still use 3 vessels, it's just that one is 60 qt plastic Igloo cooler and cannot be direct fired, nor does it need to be.I use my IC has my HERMS simply by heating my HLT and having my IC in there. That can easily be used for step mashing without the worry of direct-firing your MT.I've always wondered how someone mashes in a SS keggle and doesn't loose temp. I always have a ~7° temp drop in my cooler and that is simply due to equalization of the thermal mass of the cooler, but after that, it might drop 1° in an hour.

They both work, and both have their advantages. The coolers are normally less expensive (althought the 10 gallon round igloos can be expensive) hold heat better, and lighter. The downside is people have had them warp when they add there strike water, can stain, hold flavors, and need to account for the termal mass either with a calculation or preheating the tun. You also have a temp loss potention from HLT to MLT. The SS takes the thermal loss out of the equation. Since you would have heated up the stike water in the vessel you will nail the temp everytime w/o any loss in temp. You can also save time, I normally get everything ready the night before, so my strike water is in my tun and sparge water is in the hlt. All I need to do is turn the HLT on in the morning. Since they are SS they should last forever, will not hold flavors or warp.An unisulated SS tun has the potential to loos a greater amount of temp durning the mash than a cooler. I normally place a wool blanket over it and will lose 1-2 degrees over an hour. I have mashed w/o the blanket and lost 5-7 degrees during the mash. The biggest disadvantage is if you lose a converted keg and it is elevated, which discribes mine. My basic layout is similare to a b3 1550. The mlt is the top level with the hlt directly below it, the top of my mlt is 6'2". So I need to lift that down 30lb keg, 30lbs of grain, and around 5 gallons of absorbed water at 8lbs per gallon adds another 40lb. That is 100lbs that I need to lift down. Another disadvantage is that that the outside can be hot and better chance to burn you than a cooler (but you are more likely to burn yourself on your kettle.

[Dean Palmer]

After using fancy and expensive metal backed foam for insulating my keg mash tun, I found that the two Mexican blankets off the sofa work best.

[Jimmy James]

Good to see you over here Dean.

[Dean Palmer]

Good to see you over here Dean.

Thanks, I wouldn't want to be without all the great folks that have guided me toward good beer for so long!

[Jeff]

It is very tricky! You get the advantage of doing almost any kind of brewing you want. Most modern home brewers are not looking to learn every little detail about how beer used to be made, and most modern malts don't need all the extra steps needed to convert the starch to sugar. So the need for a fire powered SS system is not really that big of a deal. It ends up being very expensive hardware and takes a lot more work to keep it going compared to a cooler.With those disclaimers made, it is fun to have one! It does not work 100% every time. When it does, you get a much greater personal gratification from knowing you did it the hard way! :cheers:The trick is getting the pump rate right compared to the heat rate. If you are off on either one, the result is not good. It can be a very poor conversion which means a weak beer, or a burnt mash which can mean no one will drink it.Here is a link to my system from way back when ... https://www.kane1.co...er/brewery.html . And here is a direct link to the pictures of the many updates made to it in the last 6 months. https://www.kane1.co...2009/index.html

[cbbrown40]

After using fancy and expensive metal backed foam for insulating my keg mash tun, I found that the two Mexican blankets off the sofa work best.

I use the same for the mash and hold the temp in a sanke for an hour with no more than a 2-4 degree loss. I then turn on the flame again and slowly recirc and at the same time bring my mash up to 168 before I start the sparge. Never burned it but I do take the heat up at a slow pace

[Stout_fan]

When you guys noodle out how to fire a SS Mash tun, you're ready for the next riddle:Gas fired air conditioning.Hint: Ammonium Cycle.

[Jeff]

When you guys noodle out how to fire a SS Mash tun, you're ready for the next riddle:Gas fired air conditioning.Hint: Ammonium Cycle.

Quite a few years ago there was a home brewer who was working on a propane powered beer cooler. He came up with putting a propane tank in a bushel basket sized container with water and the beer. Then he fired up a jet engine like thing with the propane. As the pressure in the tank dropped, it chilled and passed the coolness on to the water in the basket which then passed it onto the beer. Used to be a web page, but I long since lost the link. Google probably knows where it is, but I am too lazy today to hunt for it.

[Stout_fan]

Nope, this involves BURNING NG!Back in the days when NG was cheap. The neighbor had one.