34 replies to this topic

[consumptionjunction]

Sometimes I feel that higher carbonation leaves me with a dryer perception as well.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Here is an example where an extremely high FG will give a sweet beginning, but again the RB and the alcohol give it a dry finish. Very malty, but never cloying. Read the flavor sectionVital Statistics: OG: 1.070 – 1.130 IBUs: 17 – 35 FG: 1.018 – 1.056 SRM: 14 – 25 ABV: 6.5 – 10%

1.056 FG!!! Holy crap! The reason I brought up FG is people were talking about pulling out hydrometers to prove a wine is dry.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Sometimes I feel that higher carbonation leaves me with a dryer perception as well.

I think this is also the case. Carbonation can lend a certain amount of "crispness" which could be perceived as dryness I think.

[MtnBrewer]

I think this is also the case. Carbonation can lend a certain amount of "crispness" which could be perceived as dryness I think.

Could be misperceived as dryness maybe but it's actually a thinner mouthfeel. The carbonation creates the sensation that the beer is not as "thick" as it would be otherwise. Mouthfeel and sweetness are somewhat related (higher mouthfeel often means sweeter) so I can see why some people would associate the two. Also in some beers (typically lighter lagers) high levels of carbonation can create an acidic "bite" from carbonic acid. This acidity can also counteract some of the residual sweetness and give it that crispness that you mentioned.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Could be misperceived as dryness maybe but it's actually a thinner mouthfeel. The carbonation creates the sensation that the beer is not as "thick" as it would be otherwise. Mouthfeel and sweetness are somewhat related (higher mouthfeel often means sweeter) so I can see why some people would associate the two. Also in some beers (typically lighter lagers) high levels of carbonation can create an acidic "bite" from carbonic acid. This acidity can also counteract some of the residual sweetness and give it that crispness that you mentioned.

so now that I have you back here - is RB supposed to provide some amount of tannins? It seems like maybe the answer is yes.

[Thirsty]

so now that I have you back here - is RB supposed to provide some amount of tannins? It seems like maybe the answer is yes.

Tannins=astringency. Not a desired trait in any beer. Different from dry. The thin line is the dryness from the roast vs. the astringency from the husk. During sparging some tannins are likely extracted, but if done at the right temp, very little.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Tannins=astringency. Not a desired trait in any beer. Different from dry. The thin line is the dryness from the roast vs. the astringency from the husk. During sparging some tannins are likely extracted, but if done at the right temp, very little.

so where does the dryness come from with roasted barley? so far the only explanation has been tannin extraction.

[Thirsty]

so where does the dryness come from with roasted barley? so far the only explanation has been tannin extraction.

The roast and the lack of sugar. It is like drinking your coffee black- strong roast and dry and bitter, but not astringent.

[MtnBrewer]

so now that I have you back here - is RB supposed to provide some amount of tannins? It seems like maybe the answer is yes.

No, I don't think there should be any tannins in roasted malts. Of course the roasted flavors are going to be somewhat astringent but that's not the same as tannins.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

No, I don't think there should be any tannins in roasted malts. Of course the roasted flavors are going to be somewhat astringent but that's not the same as tannins.

interesting - how would one tell the difference in taste since tannins are described as tasting astringent?

[Genesee Ted]

1.056 FG!!! Holy crap! The reason I brought up FG is people were talking about pulling out hydrometers to prove a wine is dry.

I cannot imagine a beer with an FG of 1.056 giving any perception of dryness. I hope that my statements are not being misunderstood. Allow me to simplify for clarity. Dryness refers to residual sugar at the time of consumption. The perception of dryness can be impersonated by and/or enhanced by the presence of roasted malt or tannin because of the mouthfeel contributed by them. My statements about fruity wine not being perceived as dry go along with the kettle caramelization (aka Maillard reactions) giving the impression of sweetness. There are other compounds which can give a sensation of supposed sweetness without the presence of sugar. An elevated level of acidity can give the impression of a beverage being dry, just as an elevated level of alcohol in something dry can leave an impression of sweetness. Carbonation also plays a factor in that as Mtn stated, it sort of thins the beer because of the bubbles. I really apologize if this doesn't work, but perhaps what we are looking at here is more about perception than quantitative truth. From all I have ever read about fermented beverages, dryness and sweetness are measured levels of residual sugar. As far as what it tastes like, I feel like that goes right along the same parameters. Granted, some factors may throw some of us astray, perhaps we can create a system for classifying these misleading agents so as to use them to our advantage.

[MtnBrewer]

interesting - how would one tell the difference in taste since tannins are described as tasting astringent?

Tannins are not roasty. It's also a "softer" kind of astringency, not the puckery kind you get with tannins or alum.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Tannins are not roasty. It's also a "softer" kind of astringency, not the puckery kind you get with tannins or alum.

In this case I get kind of a tingly feeling on the inside of my cheeks but no where else really.

[Salsgebom]

Dry, when it comes to beer, means low body and mouthfeel (usually, or maybe always, low FG). There is alcohol warmth in high gravity beers which adds a dry character. It's pretty easy to differentiate alcohol dryness since it's usually accompanied by heavy mouthfeel/high FG, so I try to use the words 'warming' when it's at a manageable level and 'hot' when its too much. Tannins, carbonation, and other factors might add a dry perception but I think the most advanced tasters should be able to differentiate these characters from actual dryness. As for the dry finish, I think that has less to do with gravity and more to do with balance. When there are lingering flavors, its because that flavor is too dominant in that beer. I believe beers of all colors and sizes can finish clean if they're balanced properly.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Dry, when it comes to beer, means low body and mouthfeel (usually, or maybe always, low FG). There is alcohol warmth in high gravity beers which adds a dry character. It's pretty easy to differentiate alcohol dryness since it's usually accompanied by heavy mouthfeel/high FG, so I try to use the words 'warming' when it's at a manageable level and 'hot' when its too much. Tannins, carbonation, and other factors might add a dry perception but I think the most advanced tasters should be able to differentiate these characters from actual dryness. As for the dry finish, I think that has less to do with gravity and more to do with balance. When there are lingering flavors, its because that flavor is too dominant in that beer. I believe beers of all colors and sizes can finish clean if they're balanced properly.

in this case it can't be too much hops b/c this is def more towards the malty side of things. what other factors tend to leave a lingering type of dryness?