48 replies to this topic

[Big Nake]

I read the HopUnion page on it. Intense citrus, bittering hop, high-alpha, possible onion and garlic if you use too much. Really? I have an ounce at 16.1% and after going through my hops I envisioned a pale ale bittered with Summit and then Amarillo, Simcoe and Citra in the boil with an Amarillo, Simcoe and Citra dry hop. How is the Summit for bittering? Sounds like it may not be that clean... thoughts on that and how it would play with the other hops? Cheers.

Summit Hops

[3rd party JKor]

As luck would have it, I am currently sipping a pale ale (or session IPA, if you like ) that was bittered with Summit and finished with Amarillo and Citra.  I've brewed this recipe several times in the last 6 months.  My previous batch was identical except that I used Magnum as the bittering hop instead of Summit.  I will say, I feel like there is some aroma character, potentially from the Summit, that wasn't there in the previous batch.  *maybe* onion/garlic but I can't say for sure.  I am drinking this before it has been dryhopped, so it might be masked by the dryhop in any case.

[3rd party JKor]

As the beer warms a bit the lemon/lime/melon from the Amarillo/Citra combo really dominates the aroma.  The Summit probably isn't as clean as Magnum but I don't know if it's really a huge deal for bittering a pale ale.

[Big Nake]

Hmm, I consider that a great reference because Magnum is very clean and it would be another option I have. But I have to say... I don't really want onion or garlic character in my beer. Do you know how much of it you used? I read that "if you use too much..." you could get onion or garlic. I'm only going to use .3 ounces / 4.8 AAU / 20 IBUs for bittering. I would be dry hopping this beer (5 gallons) with an ounce each of Simcoe, Citra and Amarillo and I could see that covering up the onion/garlic but honestly... I might not take the chance if it's detectable. Cheers.

[3rd party JKor]

8 grams in 3 gallon.  I suppose that would be more like 1/2 an ounce for a 5 gallon batch.

[3rd party JKor]

Really, if anything it's a slight hint.  My guess is you'd be able to tell the difference between the magnum hopped beer and this beer side by side before dryhopping, but just barely.  It's speculating and I didn't really do much tasting on the last batch before dry hopping.  The amarillo/citra/simcoe dry hop is pretty pungent.  I can't imagine a little wisp of garlic would make it through.  I'd worry about it on something like an MLPA, but with 3 ounces of dry hops I don't think it will be detectable.

[Big Nake]

Really, if anything it's a slight hint.  My guess is you'd be able to tell the difference between the magnum hopped beer and this beer side by side before dryhopping, but just barely.  It's speculating and I didn't really do much tasting on the last batch before dry hopping.  The amarillo/citra/simcoe dry hop is pretty pungent.  I can't imagine a little wisp of garlic would make it through.  I'd worry about it on something like an MLPA, but with 3 ounces of dry hops I don't think it will be detectable.

I think you're right. Someone suggested Summit and I bought an ounce of it. I just went and checked and I also have some more Magnum, Columbus, Horizon and Nugget as my high-alpha bittering hops. Do you detect the onion/garlic when you first open the bag and take a whiff? I agree... .3 ounces in 5 gallons covered up with 3 ounces of hops in the boil plus 3 more ounces of dry hops should wipe out any onion or garlic. I hope.

[djinkc]

FWIW, I have not used Summit for a few years.  Honestly, don't remember much about it but I was well aware of the garlic/onion.  I never got that when I used it.  I guess smell it and decide.

[Big Nake]

FWIW, I have not used Summit for a few years.  Honestly, don't remember much about it but I was well aware of the garlic/onion.  I never got that when I used it.  I guess smell it and decide.

Right. I planned to make the call after opening the bag. If I don't detect it, I'll probably use it. I once heard people say this about another hop and I don't remember which one. Someone said they opened a HopUnion 1-oz bag of pellets and the smell of onion/garlic overwhelmed them. Someone mentioned that something used in the packaging (vacuum sealing, O2-purging) created that smell and it wasn't the hops. In this case however... sounds like the hops might do it.

DJ... are they "clean bittering"?

[3rd party JKor]

I just mashed up a few pellets in a white labs tube.  I definitely get the intense citrus.  I'm not picking up onion/garlic.

[matt6150]

I've used Summit before in the past. I never got any onion/garlic. I would have to be at home to look at my notes to see how much I used and when. But I recall not liking a heavy hand of them late in the boil for some reason.

[Steve Urquell]

I've used them for bittering before and they left a slight bad odor in primary. It was in the munge ring though and didn't show in the finished beer after removed from primary.

I brewed a 1 gallon IPA batch with all Summit to see if any orange came thru. 60min, 15, 0, dry hop. That beer smelled and tasted like straight up hippy armpit BO. Absolutely disgusting. After aging for ~ 1yr it was extremely dank and had lost most of the BO'der. Probably what people want when they are brewing with MJ--bongwater.

[Big Nake]

I've used them for bittering before and they left a slight bad odor in primary. It was in the munge ring though and didn't show in the finished beer after removed from primary.

I brewed a 1 gallon IPA batch with all Summit to see if any orange came thru. 60min, 15, 0, dry hop. That beer smelled and tasted like straight up hippy armpit BO. Absolutely disgusting. After aging for ~ 1yr it was extremely dank and had lost most of the BO'der. Probably what people want when they are brewing with MJ--bongwater.

Mmm, I'm starting to think that the $2 or $3 I spent on this ounce of hops could be easily written off. [hippietalk] Man, I done want my beer tasting like BO, Man. [/hippietalk] I guarantee I'll take a whiff of these things but if there is one funky note coming out of that bag, it's off to the landfill.

[3rd party JKor]

I've used them for bittering before and they left a slight bad odor in primary. It was in the munge ring though and didn't show in the finished beer after removed from primary.

I brewed a 1 gallon IPA batch with all Summit to see if any orange came thru. 60min, 15, 0, dry hop. That beer smelled and tasted like straight up hippy armpit BO. Absolutely disgusting. After aging for ~ 1yr it was extremely dank and had lost most of the BO'der. Probably what people want when they are brewing with MJ--bongwater.

 

 

LOL, that's interesting.  I've been considering an Armpit Brown.  Now I know where to go for hops.

[Big Nake]

I was much more likely to experiment with ingredients when I was a new brewer. Weird new hops varieties (Mosaic=cat pee and don't even get me started on Belma!), yeast strains that ruined my beer (IMO), etc. At some point I have to realize that the world of brewing ingredients is large enough.

[HVB]

I was much more likely to experiment with ingredients when I was a new brewer. Weird new hops varieties (Mosaic=cat pee and don't even get me started on Belma!), yeast strains that ruined my beer (IMO), etc. At some point I have to realize that the world of brewing ingredients is large enough.

I am curious, you do not like Mosaic but do you like Citra or Simcoe.  I am glad I am not one of the ones that gets the cat pee!

[3rd party JKor]

I had an MO-Mosaic SMaSH from Long Trail last week.  No cat pee AFAIC.

[HVB]

I had an MO-Mosaic SMaSH from Long Trail last week.  No cat pee AFAIC.

I use a lot of mosaic and do not get it either.  For the record I use a lot of citra and simcoe too so either I do not get it or I just like it.

[denny]

I LOVE Summit and use them frequently.  Lovely cirtrus aromas and flavors.  The onion/garlic thing can happen to any hop....it's tied to harvest time.  Learned that at Hop Union Hop School!  I haven't had it in Summit in years.

[HVB]

I LOVE Summit and use them frequently.  Lovely cirtrus aromas and flavors.  The onion/garlic thing can happen to any hop....it's tied to harvest time.  Learned that at Hop Union Hop School!  I haven't had it in Summit in years.

That is good to know.  I had Gubbna from Oscar Blues once and it was reported to be all Summit and I got the onion/garlic thing big time and have staid away from that hop.  I did not realize that could be an issue with all hops depending on harvest.