23 replies to this topic

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

So I made a dry stout a while back. It's a pretty simple recipe, MO, flaked barley, roasted barley. I mashed low and used US-05 yeast. What is kind of surprising though is how ROASTY this beer tastes. Almost smokey but also with a slight sour/tart taste in the back ground. The roasted barley is almost certainly the source of the roasted/smokey flavor but what about this sour/tart taste? I actually find it slightly off-putting so I was wondering what was causing it. Is it the RB or is it the yeast?

[Slainte]

Is it sort of like a slight mouth puckering effect? Could be astringency. I oversparged on the first Dry Stout I ever did, and it came out astringent.Or, It could be contamination.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Is it sort of like a slight mouth puckering effect? Could be astringency. I oversparged on the first Dry Stout I ever did, and it came out astringent.Or, It could be contamination.

I batch sparge so I'm not sure I can oversparge...I tend to not suspect contamination b/c I've never had problems in the past. My practices are pretty solid I think. Any pros want to come to my house and taste this? :cussing:I wonder if it's b/c of the malt I used: My linkThen check out how black roasted barley is classified here: My linkMaybe I should be using regular roasted barley? It seems like maybe what I used is too much "intense bitter"??

[BrewerGeorge]

Which direction was mash pH wrong again? Too low?Before I started controlling water chemistry, my stouts were all rough with harsh bitterness. It was because the pH of the finished beer was too low and the acid was accentuating the bitterness in a bad way. Now that I've got control of mash pH (and therefore finished beer pH), stouts with exactly the same grain bill taste MUCH better.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Which direction was mash pH wrong again? Too low?Before I started controlling water chemistry, my stouts were all rough with harsh bitterness. It was because the pH of the finished beer was too low and the acid was accentuating the bitterness in a bad way. Now that I've got control of mash pH (and therefore finished beer pH), stouts with exactly the same grain bill taste MUCH better.

According the strips maybe a little low - according to Palmer + my H2O report I was on the high end but still in range.

[Humperdink]

Which direction was mash pH wrong again? Too low?Before I started controlling water chemistry, my stouts were all rough with harsh bitterness. It was because the pH of the finished beer was too low and the acid was accentuating the bitterness in a bad way. Now that I've got control of mash pH (and therefore finished beer pH), stouts with exactly the same grain bill taste MUCH better.

This was my first thought too, the dark malts drove the pH too low and created an an off putting overly acidic stout.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

This was my first thought too, the dark malts drove the pH too low and created an an off putting overly acidic stout.

It's possible but I'm putting in fairly significant amounts of chalk and baking soda to kick the pH up.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Well - I went back and looked at my notes and it appears that perhaps I only went to the low end of the RA scale so I may have been a little bit low on pH b/c of this. Just to show how much I attempted to raise the pH I added:2tsp (3.6g) Chalk1stp (4.4g) Baking SodaPalmer's spreadsheet predicted I needed to get the RA at least to 326. I expected the RA to be at 333.

[Sidney Porter]

How old is the beer? I find suspended yeast to be sour.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

How old is the beer? I find suspended yeast to be sour.

I probably brewed it in late April based on when I created the spreadsheet although the keg hasn't been tapped all that long so it's possible I'm sucking up some yeast right now...

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

I honestly have to wonder if I just can't handle too much roasted barley taste wise. The taste is similar to something I get in wolavers oatmeal stout but in the wolavers it's much stronger (and hence to me, offensive). Has anyone whose had this beer know what I'm talking about?

[denny]

Smoky, sour, tart says infection to me. I've had infected beers throw smoky phenolics before.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Smoky, sour, tart says infection to me. I've had infected beers throw smoky phenolics before.

strangely enough the smokiness has dropped considerably since I put this on tap.I'm also a little confused about what "roasted barley" I used since Austin HB calls it "black roasted barley". I have to wonder if this is something closer to black patent (which I don't really like) or something...

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Smoky, sour, tart says infection to me. I've had infected beers throw smoky phenolics before.

I'm hoping you're wrong b/c I can't see any part of my process where there's a problem

[Slainte]

I'm also a little confused about what "roasted barley" I used since Austin HB calls it "black roasted barley". I have to wonder if this is something closer to black patent (which I don't really like) or something...

Black roasted barley is generally a 500 L unmalted roasted grain produced by American maltsters, and is close to the roasted barleys produced by British maltsters, which hover around 500+ L. It is not close to black patent, mainly because black patent is malted, and roasted barley is not.Some American maltsters also have a roasted barley that is around 300 L. When buying grains, it's very important to know what you're buying since grains with the same name can be significantly different between brands.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Black roasted barley is generally a 500 L unmalted roasted grain produced by American maltsters, and is close to the roasted barleys produced by British maltsters, which hover around 500+ L. It is not close to black patent, mainly because black patent is malted, and roasted barley is not.Some American maltsters also have a roasted barley that is around 300 L. When buying grains, it's very important to know what you're buying since grains with the same name can be significantly different between brands.

Well - maybe it is infected then. I wish I knew what I did to cause this though. This is one of the first beers I'm actually considering dumping part of it. It's not awful it's just not something I really want to drink that much of. My wife describes the off taste it has as sort of a smoked ham taste.

[xd_haze]

I don't know what your water is like, but Stout always drove my pH too low. When I talk to people who have trouble with stouts but nothing else, I often guess it is pH related. It was for me. I've started using 5.2, and my stouts come out fine. You could sort out your water composition and use minerals, but the chemistry of your water is hard to track. It may be something phenolic -- yeast or bacteria related. Hard to know.mike

Well - maybe it is infected then. I wish I knew what I did to cause this though. This is one of the first beers I'm actually considering dumping part of it. It's not awful it's just not something I really want to drink that much of. My wife describes the off taste it has as sort of a smoked ham taste.

[BrewerGeorge]

If you're thinking of dumping it, you could experiment a bit. Mix a little chalk into water (it probably won't dissolve, so keep shaking it.) and mix some into a a glass of beer to see if it starts to taste better at some point.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

If you're thinking of dumping it, you could experiment a bit. Mix a little chalk into water (it probably won't dissolve, so keep shaking it.) and mix some into a a glass of beer to see if it starts to taste better at some point.

would that really work after the fact?

[BrewerGeorge]

would that really work after the fact?

I dunno. Just a shot in the dark. I doubt it would be able to recover the beer, but it might give you some info about the flaw. If the problem is that the pH of the finished beer is too low, then raising the pH might get rid of the acrid taste.