39 replies to this topic

[positiveContact]

So what kind of efficiency do you get?

 

typically around 80% +/- 5% into the fermentor.  it depends on the grain and gravity as well as how much liquid the hops soak up of course.

[matt6150]

typically around 80% +/- 5% into the fermentor. it depends on the grain and gravity as well as how much liquid the hops soak up of course.

Gotcha sounds about what I got when I batched. I think I'm going to try something different with my fly sparge this weekend to speed this up and see what difference it makes.

[positiveContact]

Gotcha sounds about what I got when I batched. I think I'm going to try something different with my fly sparge this weekend to speed this up and see what difference it makes.

 

I think one thing that's good about it is that the majority of the liquid is at the right pH going into the kettle so the small amount of sparge water doesn't mess with it much.  It also makes dumping the sparge water in really easy.  I certainly see no reason to try to increase my efficiency from where it is at.  It would save me almost nothing.

[matt6150]

I think one thing that's good about it is that the majority of the liquid is at the right pH going into the kettle so the small amount of sparge water doesn't mess with it much. It also makes dumping the sparge water in really easy. I certainly see no reason to try to increase my efficiency from where it is at. It would save me almost nothing.

Yeah I wouldn't change anything either. Not only not saving much, would be more of a pain adjusting recipes if you wanted to get that precise.

[denny]

Maybe.

 

what else could it be?

I've heard the increased solubility at the higher temp helps with sugar extraction. Can't remember where i read or heard it.

 

The only way that could happen is if you're already at the limit of sugar solubility in the water.  You're not even close to that, so hotter water will make no difference.

One point I wanted to make was, the mashout decoction I referenced above wasn't done in the pursuit of higher extract effiency;  my extract efficiency is normally 80-85% with a single batch sparge, which i'm more than satisfied with.

 

The main thing I'm trying to nail down is why my beer's clarity has recently gone from clear to much more murky than I'd like.  I think it's a worthwhile experiment to see if my next batch (which will get a mashout decoction) results in clarity like I was getting earlier this year.

 

If not, no big thing, but at least then i can cross this off the list of possible culprits.

 

Oh well, time for a beer, methinks.

 

Why would a mashout decoction result in clearer beer?  Not saying that it won't, but I'm not aware of the reasons it will.

So when you guys say you don't do a mashout what exactly are you referring to? In a batch sparge for instance what would be the process then? I think I know just wanted to be sure.

 

Mash, vorlauf, runoff, stir in 190F sparge water, vorlauf, runoff

[Brauer]

Gotcha sounds about what I got when I batched. I think I'm going to try something different with my fly sparge this weekend to speed this up and see what difference it makes.

I think Evil is barely batch sparging, just a gallon or less on a 10 gallon batch (correct me if I'm wrong). He's trying to emulate a No Sparge.

For a No Sparge, I get ~75% (I lose a little due to my small batch size), but I'm intentionally giving up my system's typical 87% Batch Sparge efficiency to improve wort quality. I do gain that efficiency back, though, by using the sparge for starters.

[Bklmt2000]

Why would a mashout decoction result in clearer beer?  Not saying that it won't, but I'm not aware of the reasons it will.

 

Good question, i'm not exactly sure as to the reason(s) why, but I'm going by my own observations and I see much more haze in my beers where there used to be little/no haze, and how I handle mash/sparge pH hasn't changed.

 

I can think of 2 variables that have changed:

 

- a new malt lot (all Weyermann: pils, Munich, and wheat malts) and

 

- not doing a mashout decoction for the haze-stricken batches in question.

 

i still adjust the mash water w/ lactic acid to ensure a mash pH b/w 5.2-5.4, acidy the sparge water w/ lactic as needed, etc.

 

If the mashout decoction i've been doing doesn't change anything on my next batch (a recipe i'm long familiar with), then I may have to look at post-fermentation solutions to the haziness, such as incorporating gelatin for fining, etc, and also possibly incorporating Whirlfloc back into the brewday, as I've not had to use Whirlfloc in some time.

[positiveContact]

I think Evil is barely batch sparging, just a gallon or less on a 10 gallon batch (correct me if I'm wrong). He's trying to emulate a No Sparge.

For a No Sparge, I get ~75% (I lose a little due to my small batch size), but I'm intentionally giving up my system's typical 87% Batch Sparge efficiency to improve wort quality. I do gain that efficiency back, though, by using the sparge for starters.

 

I still am.  Typically 2 gallons of sparge water on a 10 gallon batch.  If I tried to do less my mash tun would be a little too close to the top for comfort.

[denny]

Good question, i'm not exactly sure as to the reason(s) why, but I'm going by my own observations and I see much more haze in my beers where there used to be little/no haze, and how I handle mash/sparge pH hasn't changed.

 

I can think of 2 variables that have changed:

 

- a new malt lot (all Weyermann: pils, Munich, and wheat malts) and

 

- not doing a mashout decoction for the haze-stricken batches in question.

 

i still adjust the mash water w/ lactic acid to ensure a mash pH b/w 5.2-5.4, acidy the sparge water w/ lactic as needed, etc.

 

If the mashout decoction i've been doing doesn't change anything on my next batch (a recipe i'm long familiar with), then I may have to look at post-fermentation solutions to the haziness, such as incorporating gelatin for fining, etc, and also possibly incorporating Whirlfloc back into the brewday, as I've not had to use Whirlfloc in some time.

 

Have you checked your conversion efficiency to be sure it's not unconvereted starch?  A long shot, for sure, but easy to check.

[Bklmt2000]

Have you checked your conversion efficiency to be sure it's not unconvereted starch?  A long shot, for sure, but easy to check.

I don't do an iodine test, but I do take a look at the mash in tun pre-sparge/vorlauf and there is always clear (kinda darkish) mash liquor on top of the mash.

 

I also check the gravity w/ a refrac pre-boil and also taste the runnings (which always taste sweet to varying degrees, depending on the grist).

 

Keep the ideas coming, gents!

[denny]

I don't do an iodine test, but I do take a look at the mash in tun pre-sparge/vorlauf and there is always clear (kinda darkish) mash liquor on top of the mash.

 

I also check the gravity w/ a refrac pre-boil and also taste the runnings (which always taste sweet to varying degrees, depending on the grist).

 

Keep the ideas coming, gents!

 

Iodine test is worthless anyway, IMO.  To check conversion efficiency, you need to take a gravity reading of your first runnings and compare it to the chart here....https://braukaiser.c...sion_Efficiency

[Bklmt2000]

I'll do that, Denny, thanks for the link.  I've always measured my pre-boil gravity once the sparge is done, not the first runnings alone.

 

If all goes well, i hope to get a brew day in tomorrow.  Will take notes and report back.

[neddles]

I do gain that efficiency back, though, by using the sparge for starters.

I do the same. Run more water throughout the grain and drain the bag. Collect for starters and freeze.

[HVB]

I do the same. Run more water throughout the grain and drain the bag. Collect for starters and freeze.

Seeing you do BIAB what do you do move the bag to another pot and collect it in there? 

[neddles]

Seeing you do BIAB what do you do move the bag to another pot and collect it in there? 

After I pull the bag from the kettle/tun and collect sufficient preboil I put it in a 5 gal. bucket with gallon markers sharpied to the side of it. I add a volume of water based on my OG and boil time, slosh the water around in the grains and then hang the bag again from a floor joist in my basement. Collect and freeze in 1L increments. 

[HVB]

After I pull the bag from the kettle/tun and collect sufficient preboil I put it in a 5 gal. bucket with gallon markers sharpied to the side of it. I add a volume of water based on my OG and boil time, slosh the water around in the grains and then hang the bag again from a floor joist in my basement. Collect and freeze in 1L increments. 

Thanks!

[3rd party JKor]

The only way that could happen is if you're already at the limit of sugar solubility in the water.  You're not even close to that, so hotter water will make no difference.

 

 

That's not the only way, but I see where you're coming from.  Honestly hadn't ever really put much thought into it.  It probably is some additional conversion, or conversion in dead spots that may have been running lower on temp during the sach rest.  When I have seen a bump due to mashout it's almost always been very small, which led me to jump to the conclusion that it was some solubility related thing.  Maybe some larger chain sugars that were on the edge of solubility limits get picked up?  I don't know.  Again, I hadn't put much thought into it.

[MyaCullen]

Well that's called cheating! Here in the hard water capital of the US we need to make some adjustments. Hell, you can't even get a shower head to last more than 2 years around here without soaking it in lime away.

what's you HCO3?

[Brauer]

I do the same. Run more water throughout the grain and drain the bag. Collect for starters and freeze.

I know it doesn't come out of nowhere, but it always feels like free wort for starters. Meanwhile, I'm much happier with my wort quality.

[neddles]

I know it doesn't come out of nowhere, but it always feels like free wort for starters. Meanwhile, I'm much happier with my wort quality.

Yeah exactly. The first time thought to do to try this it was a bigger beer and I just threw a gallon of water in there to see what I would get. I drained it and it came out right at 1.037. A gallon of starter wort just like that! Now, the gravity isn't always that perfect but at this point I can get it pretty close with an educated guess.