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Světlý Ležák 12° BoPils


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#1 Steve Urquell

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 02:36 PM

Brewed this one today. It's a proven recipe with a couple of tweaks. I dropped 1oz of late hops and subbed Best Malz pils for part of the FM BoPils malt to save a little dough. Also used the MJ M-84 dry yeast on the last batch but went with W-34/70 just cuz I had some here and the MJ was hard to get started. Side by side tasting of the raw floor malt and BM pils is an eye opener. The floor malt has a honey-like sweetness while the BM is not 1/2 as sweet and is grainy/husky. No comparison in the two. My finished beers with these two malts echo this observation also. Světlý Ležák 12° 1.050/1.014 31IBUs/3SRM Efficiency: 80.0 % Batch size: 7.0 gal Weyermann® Floor-Malted Bohemian Pilsner Malt 6.0 lb 49 % BM Pilsen (UK) 3.5 lb 28 % Weyermann® Vienna Malt 2.0 lb 16 % Weyermann® CARARED® 6.0 oz 3 % Weyermann® Acidulated Malt 4.0 oz 2 % Columbus 0.6oz 60 min Pellet 14.6% Czech Saaz (CZ) 1.0oz 30min Leaf 2.4% Saaz (CZ) 1.6oz 15min Leaf 2.4% Saaz (CZ) 1.4oz 175F steep Leaf 2.4% Yeast: Saflager W-34/70 3G/3G CaCl2 mash/sparge, 1.5tsp 10% Phosphoric acid in sparge, pH 5.42 Step Infusion (135 °F) 15 minutes; (145 °F) 30 minutes; (160 °F) 30 minutes.

Edited by chils, 04 August 2014 - 02:39 PM.


#2 SchwanzBrewer

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 02:55 PM

I sure hope you cut/paste the name, because the alt keys required for that name would drive me nuts!



#3 johnpreuss

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 03:23 PM

That looks tasty chils.  I need to get another lager going here.  Maybe after the next batch I'll do up a lager. I picked up a pack of 2124 and a sack of pils when I was down in the cities a couple weekends ago so I best get it going. :D


Edited by johnpreuss, 04 August 2014 - 03:27 PM.


#4 positiveContact

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 03:50 PM

so you don't just use the some pils for all of your pils?  part FM and part some other kind of pils?



#5 Big Nake

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 05:11 PM

I wonder if the difference in the pils is what you might notice when you have one of these beers in the Czech Republic... a sort of 'tang' character. I'm not sure that it's honey-like but there is a character I pick up that's hard to describe and harder to duplicate. Do you think that the Best Malz seems bland or one-dimensional compared to the FM Bohemian stuff? I use a lot of Best Malz Pils and have no other pils malt to compare my beers to. I suppose it would be a good idea to buy another brand of pils next time just to see the difference but I have to say that I'm pretty content with the beers I make with Best Malz including the pilsner and pils-like styles.

Edited by KenLenard, 04 August 2014 - 05:13 PM.


#6 Steve Urquell

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 05:26 PM

I brewed a couple of beers with floor malt then bought a bag of BM pils. The floor malt beers were way richer and more flavorful. I used BM as part of this grainbill to help use it up. When I do, I'll only buy floor malt or the regular Weyermann Bohemian pils. I am very happy with my Czech beers using this malt Ken. Ive struggled for years to make my Czech and German lagers satisfy me. This malt gave my beers the character they were missing. It needs a protein rest though. I have to slice up the top of the grainbed during the sparge for all the waxy gunk. I had a stuck runoff on the very first beer due to that. Water just sitting on the waxy cap. JP, get on it. 2124 is a great yeast for Continental lagers. Love it in German pils. Def copy/paste on that title. I'm not that good :)

Edited by chils, 04 August 2014 - 05:30 PM.


#7 Big Nake

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 07:30 PM

I brewed a couple of beers with floor malt then bought a bag of BM pils. The floor malt beers were way richer and more flavorful. I used BM as part of this grainbill to help use it up. When I do, I'll only buy floor malt or the regular Weyermann Bohemian pils. I am very happy with my Czech beers using this malt Ken. Ive struggled for years to make my Czech and German lagers satisfy me. This malt gave my beers the character they were missing. It needs a protein rest though. I have to slice up the top of the grainbed during the sparge for all the waxy gunk. I had a stuck runoff on the very first beer due to that. Water just sitting on the waxy cap. JP, get on it. 2124 is a great yeast for Continental lagers. Love it in German pils. Def copy/paste on that title. I'm not that good :)

Interesting. Why does it need the rest? Also, are we talking Weyermann floor-malted pilsner? I believe I used it a few times and I got very cloudy beer... is this what the rest would be for? Clarity? This is mildly chin-rubbing but I have to say that I al not really in the mood to start going with different pilsner malts at the moment. I like what I used to get with Durst Turbo Pils but it's been hard to find. Many others have mentioned that Best Malz has been very good and I agree. I would think that almost anything German has got to have a leg up on Briess, Rahr and the other domestic pilsners. But I could see getting a small amount of the FM pils and trying it out on a Czech Pils.

#8 Steve Urquell

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 07:45 PM

Yep, Weyermann Floor malted bohemian pilsner. The rest is to break down proteins that cause haze. From what I've read, it is slightly undermodified. If you have floor malt available at your LHBS, chomp a couple of kernels followed by your usual malt. Very easy to tell the difference.

#9 Big Nake

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 08:01 PM

Yep, Weyermann Floor malted bohemian pilsner. The rest is to break down proteins that cause haze. From what I've read, it is slightly undermodified. If you have floor malt available at your LHBS, chomp a couple of kernels followed by your usual malt. Very easy to tell the difference.

There is also another Weyermann pils malt... fully modified. Have you tried it and do you know if it's good? Also, where do you do your rest and for how long? I do not have a direct-fired MT so rests are a little trickier for me. Cheers.

#10 Steve Urquell

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 08:09 PM

There is also another Weyermann pils malt... fully modified. Have you tried it and do you know if it's good? Also, where do you do your rest and for how long? I do not have a direct-fired MT so rests are a little trickier for me. Cheers.

Rest schedule: Step Infusion (135 °F) 15 minutes; (145 °F) 30 minutes; (160 °F) 30 minutes. I haven't used any other Weyermann Pils Malt than this one. I step infuse in a cooler tun with a braid. Dough in thick 1:1 for the protein rest then add boiling water to raise temps. This infusion calculator works well for me. I do have to add more water than it predicts for the last, higher temp rest though. https://www.brewersfriend.com/mash/ I did a short protein rest at a higher temp in the range of proteinase for this batch. The first batch I went for 30mins at 131F and the beer had head retention problems.

Edited by chils, 04 August 2014 - 08:10 PM.


#11 positiveContact

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 05:03 AM

What kind of vessel are you mashing in?  How was your mash thickness progressing as you went through your infusions?  How did you account for pH as you added more water?



#12 Steve Urquell

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 06:11 AM

Igloo Ice cube. 1:1 dough in, pH 5.2 for 135F protein rest,

added 3qts boiling water for beta rest at 145F, pH 5.3,

added 8qts boiling water and 1tsp of 10% phosphoric acid for alpha rest at 160F, pH 5.4 



#13 positiveContact

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 06:39 AM

Igloo Ice cube. 1:1 dough in, pH 5.2 for 135F protein rest,

added 3qts boiling water for beta rest at 145F, pH 5.3,

added 8qts boiling water and 1tsp of 10% phosphoric acid for alpha rest at 160F, pH 5.4 

 

did you try to calculate your pH values ahead of time or did you just take a reading and adjust on the fly?

 

I'm wondering if I could just calculate each rest as it's own mash in bru'n water.  I can't see a reason why not but step mashes are not my typical MO.



#14 Big Nake

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 06:41 AM

I have done a few Hochkurz mashes where I started thick and added boiling water to get my temp up. It worked but it was relatively simple (and I got lucky too) and this one would require a bit more thought and possibly luck. Not sure I'll go down this road but an interesting read for sure.

#15 positiveContact

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 06:46 AM

I have done a few Hochkurz mashes where I started thick and added boiling water to get my temp up. It worked but it was relatively simple (and I got lucky too) and this one would require a bit more thought and possibly luck. Not sure I'll go down this road but an interesting read for sure.

 

I would guess when the mash is really thick you might not need to acidify it that much but as you add more water you'll need to add acid or some brewing salts.  I'm just not sure if I can always just count up the total water and acid/brewing salts for any particular point in the process and have a reasonable idea what the pH would be.



#16 Big Nake

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 06:56 AM

I would guess when the mash is really thick you might not need to acidify it that much but as you add more water you'll need to add acid or some brewing salts.  I'm just not sure if I can always just count up the total water and acid/brewing salts for any particular point in the process and have a reasonable idea what the pH would be.

That would be especially true with my high-bicarb water. I would probably think about the total amount of acid I might use in a normal mash† (more on that in a second) and then divide it up based on water percentage or whatever. I would assume that small additions of acids might have to be made each time more water was added. † So I typically add around the same amount of salts to my beers to get my Ca into the 60-65ppm range and it's just a question of how much each of CaCl and CaSO4 I might add depending on style. That means that I can look back at beers I made near that SRM and get a feel for how much lactic acid I need. If I have a beer that was SRM 4, I might need 2.5ml of acid to get a mash pH of 5.2 (I'm making this up) and if I had a beer that was SRM 12, I might only need 1.5ml, etc. and the SRM is the only real variable because the salt additions are similar(ish) and I'm all-filtered-water-all-the-time now so there is no distilled water percentage variable. That said, I could add 50% of the acid for the first/thick mash, then add 25% on the first water addition, another 25% for the last one, etc. I would be a little more calculating about it but I'm just thinking out loud.

#17 Steve Urquell

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 07:13 AM

I use 100% RO water and EZ water calculator to figure my salts and acid additions, acid malt in the mash, and 10% phosphoric in the sparge and to adjust mash pH if needed. Most of my beers are either gold lagers or <12SRM so I just have a lot of experience knowing how much acid will drop pH.

 

Using the 10% acid gives you a little leeway too. When I was learning, I'd add 1/2 tsp then check pH, add more to get in range without worry of over acidifying.  After doing it over the years, I have a good feel for it and check less and less.

 

On my step mashes I calculate for a 5.44 mash pH knowing it will be low for the protein rest then add a little acid for each infusion > 4qts. Been doing it for years with the same system and it works well for me.



#18 Big Nake

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 08:26 AM

I use 100% RO water and EZ water calculator to figure my salts and acid additions, acid malt in the mash, and 10% phosphoric in the sparge and to adjust mash pH if needed. Most of my beers are either gold lagers or <12SRM so I just have a lot of experience knowing how much acid will drop pH.   Using the 10% acid gives you a little leeway too. When I was learning, I'd add 1/2 tsp then check pH, add more to get in range without worry of over acidifying.  After doing it over the years, I have a good feel for it and check less and less.   On my step mashes I calculate for a 5.44 mash pH knowing it will be low for the protein rest then add a little acid for each infusion > 4qts. Been doing it for years with the same system and it works well for me.

Echoing that, it's funny how it takes awhile to get comfortable with some of this. I feel like I had a few hurdles because of the water and also because of my fondness for styles that many homebrewers ignore and so it was an uphill battle for awhile there. But I have gotten into a very smooth groove with my pH meter over the past 10-15 batches and I will go back and look at other similar batches to see what I did with regard to salts and acid and now it's getting to where I don't even have to consult notes from prior batches. There are a lot of things going on at mash time and it would be very easy to just give up or lose patience after a few batches. The fact that I can 'neutralize' bicarb with acid has been a huge plus for me (I still have 20 gallons of distilled water in the garage!) and the adjusting of mash, sparge and kettle pH along with my meter finally playing ball has all resulted in a confidence that I have in brewing and the elimination (of some) of the variables we all face.

#19 neddles

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 10:19 AM

I use 100% RO water and EZ water calculator to figure my salts and acid additions, acid malt in the mash, and 10% phosphoric in the sparge and to adjust mash pH if needed. Most of my beers are either gold lagers or <12SRM so I just have a lot of experience knowing how much acid will drop pH.

 

Using the 10% acid gives you a little leeway too. When I was learning, I'd add 1/2 tsp then check pH, add more to get in range without worry of over acidifying.  After doing it over the years, I have a good feel for it and check less and less.

 

On my step mashes I calculate for a 5.44 mash pH knowing it will be low for the protein rest then add a little acid for each infusion > 4qts. Been doing it for years with the same system and it works well for me.

Thanks for sharing your process. Very cool you have figured out how to make this work for you over so much experience. I would think that using RO water would change the pH very little. I wonder how much of the pH change you get is the result of the mash's pH raising throughout the course of the mash. Also without looking at it in BrunWater I would suspect that 1/2t. of 10% phosphoric is doing very little. That's only 2.5ml of a very dilute acid. But it sounds like it's enough to work well for you.



#20 neddles

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Posted 04 May 2015 - 08:49 PM

Here is another of the beers Chils sent me. Again the clarity is pristine. Just look at how much you can see through that beer! This beer was a real treat. Medium bodied with a rich honeyed-bread malt character. The hops were spicy, floral,  prominent, and surprisingly clear for a beer with this much age on it. The beer was firmly and cleanly bittered but pleasantly so. I would have guessed more than 31 IBU as shown above. Not sure what to attribute it to other than solid brewing practice, but this beer seemed to have a super-smooth mouthfeel to it. If I were filling my glass from Chils' taps every night I would have a tough time deciding between this one and the Hoppy German Pils (GPA). After a long day of digging, hauling, and planting I had a difficulty taking my time with this one. Insanely drinkable. Thank you Chils.

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