30 replies to this topic

[Deerslyr]

I don't really place my beers on a stage with a spotlight on them... they're meant for drinking.

Entering a comp can be fun and interesting, but in the end... hear hear!!! Drink away!

[Big Nake]

Entering a comp can be fun and interesting, but in the end... hear hear!!! Drink away!

I agree with that and I have entered some. My experience is that it's more trouble than it's worth. I absolutely HATE sending beers across the country and I have entered some so-so beers that did great and I've entered some beers that I thought were fantastic only to have them bashed. I guess I don't really benefit from them.

[Humperdink]

I should have mentioned that I agree with Criscose and George's philosophy. While I want my beers to be good (okay, great!), I don't necessarily expect everything that I brew to be a perfect work of art. I don't enter comps and my beers are meant for general consumption for me, my wife, friends, family and neighbors. I don't really place my beers on a stage with a spotlight on them... they're meant for drinking.

Well put brewbrother. Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Jimmy James]

Both my wife and I can easily pick out pilsener malt flavors in beers with a simple grain bill - she doesn't care for it too much. I will often sub 2-row in beers with appreciable amounts of munich, xtal or other specialty grains as those tend to overwhelm the delicate flavor of pilsener malt. I don't see any point in paying for the pils malt if I won't taste the difference.I can't really describe the flavor/aroma profile exactly, but I suspect pilsener malt has similar flavors and aroma as 2-row, just more of it. Sweetness was mentioned earlier, and if you munch on a few pils malt grains you'll notice more sweetness than 2-row, or at least I do. It's a good question by Ken for sure. When I think pilsener malt is crucial is with brews like Munich Helles, Kolsch or similar styles where the flavor profile is really driven by the base malt. I wish I could put words to the flavor I perceive as being pilsener malt. I would describe it as a more grainy, malty, with a more sharp nasal sensation than you get with 2-row.

[MtnBrewer]

Both my wife and I can easily pick out pilsener malt flavors in beers with a simple grain bill - she doesn't care for it too much. I will often sub 2-row in beers with appreciable amounts of munich, xtal or other specialty grains as those tend to overwhelm the delicate flavor of pilsener malt. I don't see any point in paying for the pils malt if I won't taste the difference.I can't really describe the flavor/aroma profile exactly, but I suspect pilsener malt has similar flavors and aroma as 2-row, just more of it. Sweetness was mentioned earlier, and if you munch on a few pils malt grains you'll notice more sweetness than 2-row, or at least I do. It's a good question by Ken for sure. When I think pilsener malt is crucial is with brews like Munich Helles, Kolsch or similar styles where the flavor profile is really driven by the base malt. I wish I could put words to the flavor I perceive as being pilsener malt. I would describe it as a more grainy, malty, with a more sharp nasal sensation than you get with 2-row.

I wonder if some of that flavor profile might be DMS. I know that the paler the malt, the more prone to DMS it is. For this reason, Jamil always recommends a 90 minute boil with pils malt.

[MAZ]

Great thread, Ken. I'm a little late to the game, so much of what I think on the subject has already been stated, but I'll add this... From an ingredient standpoint, beer is a pretty simple food product. Malt, hops and yeast are the major flavor contributors. For some beer styles, any one of these components will be the dominant flavor contributor. You (Ken) brew a fair amount of clean lagers, so with the exception of a hoppy pilsner, I would think that your malt is the dominant flavor and that you'd notice a difference between continental Pils and domestic 2-row. I'm not saying you wouldn't notice the Pils malt in a pilsner, but I think it would be more difficult to detect in vs. something like a Helles.I tend to make beers on the bitter/hoppy end of the spectrum. And I also use a fair amount of Marris Otter. Maybe I should do my own experiment... sacks of domestic 2-row are certainly less expensive than MO.

[Big Nake]

I stopped and picked up some Durst Pils yesterday and I plan to conduct an experiment. I have my Blonde Ale in primary right now (made with American 2-row) and I could either make that beer again with the Pils or another batch of this "American Standard/Premium" with 2124 Bohemian lager yeast that I have already made twice this summer... both times with 2-row as the base malt.

[VolFan]

I stopped and picked up some Durst Pils yesterday and I plan to conduct an experiment. I have my Blonde Ale in primary right now (made with American 2-row) and I could either make that beer again with the Pils or another batch of this "American Standard/Premium" with 2124 Bohemian lager yeast that I have already made twice this summer... both times with 2-row as the base malt.

I'd go with the 2124 Bohemian lager yeast. I always cut my regular water with some distilled to get it a little softer when brewing a Pils.

Edited by VolFan, 30 August 2009 - 08:37 AM.

[Big Nake]

I think that after watching that Three Sheets video (in Shag's Vienna/Oktober thread), I might take this Durst Pils and make my Brauhaus Helles which is supposed to be modeled after Hofbrau Original. It's the lighter-colored beer that you see people drinking in part of that video and it's a delicious beer. I have the necessary 2124 up & running as we speak.

[Jimmy James]

Good point, but I don't think DMS is what I associate with pils malt unless pretty much every pilsener based lager I've downed in the States or over in Europe had DMS in it. I was always told DMS was more of a cooked corn taste. The flavor I associate with pilsener malt is a little more sharp and nasal. To me, pilsener malt just tastes more like grain, or more of the grain, with a subtle spicy flavor. Not spicy like rye, but maybe somewhat in that direction? I have been trying to put my finger on what distinctive flavors/aromas are in pils for years and I still can't do it, but I know it when I smell/taste it.

I wonder if some of that flavor profile might be DMS. I know that the paler the malt, the more prone to DMS it is. For this reason, Jamil always recommends a 90 minute boil with pils malt.

[Thirsty]

I wonder if some of that flavor profile might be DMS. I know that the paler the malt, the more prone to DMS it is. For this reason, Jamil always recommends a 90 minute boil with pils malt.

Good point, but I don't think DMS is what I associate with pils malt unless pretty much every pilsener based lager I've downed in the States or over in Europe had DMS in it. I was always told DMS was more of a cooked corn taste. The flavor I associate with pilsener malt is a little more sharp and nasal. To me, pilsener malt just tastes more like grain, or more of the grain, with a subtle spicy flavor. Not spicy like rye, but maybe somewhat in that direction? I have been trying to put my finger on what distinctive flavors/aromas are in pils for years and I still can't do it, but I know it when I smell/taste it.

I think the sweeter flavor in pils is closely related to a "corn" like flavor, but more grainy and faint- rather than the "bready" flavor of a pale malt. I always do a 90 minute boil regardless, but when I first taste a green beer made with pils I always think there is a slight bit of this corn-like flavor, and aroma. I have tasted DMS in other's competition beers, and it is distinct, I have not ever had a DMS comment on my own beers, but yet there is still that slight sweet corn somewhere there.Ironically I have made BYO's clone of DFH's India Brown many times, and they use pilsner for the base in an American brown, along with flaked maize. I have some on tap right now actually, and this beer has no pils taste whatsoever in it. Very malty, and very accurate to the original, I have thought about using pale malt instead for this recipe to see the difference if any. For my Belgian tripels, blonds, and BSGAs I cannot think of using anything but pils. I have also used Rahr pils in a lot of recipes, and it is fairly cheap, the same as Rahr pale, so I stick with the traditional ingredients anyhow.