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#1 toonces

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 10:36 AM

and sounding like a noob.from northern brewers website:

Rahr 2-Row Pale. 1.7° L. Rahr 2-Row Pale is an economical base malt. It is made from Harrington barley, grown on the western prairies, and is malted in Minnesota. It is high in enzymes, well modified, clean and smooth. 2-row easily converts with a single step infusion mash, but a protein rest is recommended for improved clarity.

and

Rahr 6-Row Pale. 1.7° L. Optimized for adjunct brewing—its high enzyme content easily converts corn, rice, oats, etc. Six-row is also useful in lautering wheat beers due to it high husk content. However, six-row is high in protein, and can result in increased break and haze. A protein rest is required.

i've been avoiding using these malts because i've rather unsure exactly what a protein rest is. after researching, i'm not much clearer. it appears that it involves heating the mash to temperture levels in steps. specifically, 104*F, 140*F, and 158*F for, on average 30 minutes each.is that it? where's the 'rest'? and is this the same thing that i always thought step-mashing was?thanks,

#2 EWW

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 10:45 AM

Temp range for a protein rest is actually between 113-130F. I've started doing one on all my beers...Palmer has a great write up on it FWIW

#3 dagomike

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 10:48 AM

With cheaper malts, or if you want that type of malt, you may want to do a protein rest. Usually you look at the protein content, and decide if it needs it. It's says it's well modified, which I guess is a distinction from highly modified. ? Anyway, do like 15-20 minutes around between 115 and 130. I usually shoot for 122. If you're doing wheat/adjuncts or something, I go lower around 113-115 to work in a beta glucan too. Just don't go too long.

#4 *_Guest_Matt C_*

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 03:41 PM

I use rahr 2-row all the time and don't use a protein rest and my beers are pretty clear. i dont see a real need for it except it may clear some beers that have high proteins example: wheat as mentioned above. for the most part I only use wheat for wheat beers and those are meant to be cloudy. my 2centsedit: on 6-row i have no comment as I have never used it.

#5 Humperdink

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 05:26 PM

With cheaper malts, or if you want that type of malt, you may want to do a protein rest. Usually you look at the protein content, and decide if it needs it. It's says it's well modified, which I guess is a distinction from highly modified. ? Anyway, do like 15-20 minutes around between 115 and 130. I usually shoot for 122. If you're doing wheat/adjuncts or something, I go lower around 113-115 to work in a beta glucan too. Just don't go too long.

Resting for too long would kill head retention wouldn't it? FWIW, I have brewed "brilliantly" clear beers with rahr 2 row without the rest.

#6 MolBasser

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 05:39 PM

Protein rests are largely useless and archaic.Proteases are very heat labile and most if not the majority are destroyed in kilning of the malt. Very little protease activity ever occurs in the mash.From Bamforth:"The proteolytic enzymes are particularly heat sensitive and are unlekely to survive much kilning. Proteins that are not already reduced in molecular size during malting are, therefore, not likely to be much further degraded in mashing"-Essays in Brewing Science, pp7Most of what is happening in the "protein rest" is action of beta-glucanase. From Lewis:"...This stage is called the "protein rest" although recent evidence shows that proteins are not broken down here. At this low temperature, the beta-glucanases can act (so the stand might more appropriately be called a beta glucan rest)...."-Brewing, Second Edition pp220BrewBasser

#7 Kunsan90

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 06:39 PM

Resting for too long would kill head retention wouldn't it? FWIW, I have brewed "brilliantly" clear beers with rahr 2 row without the rest.

"Resting for too long would kill head retention wouldn't it? "I've heard that to. But is it a rule for decoctions too? Look at the time spent in the protein rest, 20-30 minutes, then you pull the decoction and the time spent doing that between 1 1/2 hours, then you add it back. That's a long time for the left behind wort to sit at the protein rest temp, yet my Alt's have great head and retention. ?????

#8 Ted

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 06:54 PM

"Resting for too long would kill head retention wouldn't it? "I've heard that to. But is it a rule for decoctions too? Look at the time spent in the protein rest, 20-30 minutes, then you pull the decoction and the time spent doing that between 1 1/2 hours, then you add it back. That's a long time for the left behind wort to sit at the protein rest temp, yet my Alt's have great head and retention. ?????

That seems long to me, why does it take you 1 1/2 hrs? Am I missing something?

#9 Kunsan90

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 07:08 PM

That seems long to me, why does it take you 1 1/2 hrs? Am I missing something?

Well let's see,10 - Pull the amount needed and bring it up to 150-155'30 - Rest it at 150-155 for 30 minutes40 - Bring to a boil and boil for 30 minutesShould I be doing it a different way? The results are great, but if there's a better way, I'm open to it. I used to skip the 30 minute 150-155 rest, but was told by several brewers its a vital step.

#10 Ted

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 07:19 PM

Well let's see,10 - Pull the amount needed and bring it up to 150-155'30 - Rest it at 150-155 for 30 minutes40 - Bring to a boil and boil for 30 minutesShould I be doing it a different way? The results are great, but if there's a better way, I'm open to it. I used to skip the 30 minute 150-155 rest, but was told by several brewers its a vital step.

Oh no, I wasn't suggesting there's a better way, I guess I never really payed attention to how long each step takes, which is why I asked if I was missing something! :)

#11 Humperdink

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 09:11 AM

"Resting for too long would kill head retention wouldn't it? "I've heard that to. But is it a rule for decoctions too? Look at the time spent in the protein rest, 20-30 minutes, then you pull the decoction and the time spent doing that between 1 1/2 hours, then you add it back. That's a long time for the left behind wort to sit at the protein rest temp, yet my Alt's have great head and retention. ?????

I'm digging through my stuff to see if I can see where I heard that. I am pretty sure it was palmer on brew strong, but I want to make sure before I say it...

#12 drewseslu

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 09:55 AM

I use Rahr 2R Pils and Pale Ale malt as my base malts at MBC and my beers drop totatlly bright without filtration or a protein rest.

#13 dagomike

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 10:06 AM

Proteases are very heat labile and most if not the majority are destroyed in kilning of the malt. Very little protease activity ever occurs in the mash.

This is probably the answer. I never noticed any clarity difference when I was doing a run of protein rests. There may be other things going, but might be the beta glucan or other magical MLT fairy action.

#14 SWAGMAN

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 10:41 AM

Guess this one will be debated long after I'm gone. Several years ago I added protein rest to my mash schedule and have made it a standard. To myself its a base where I start.Posted ImageDominus VobiscumSwagman :)

#15 Humperdink

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 10:45 AM

I'm digging through my stuff to see if I can see where I heard that. I am pretty sure it was palmer on brew strong, but I want to make sure before I say it...

Kunsanfound it, it starts at around 43:00 in, but for the summation runs from 46:00-47:30 on this show:head retention Brew Strong EpisodeLooks like its an issue of how modified the malts are...

#16 Kunsan90

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 03:32 PM

Kunsanfound it, it starts at around 43:00 in, but for the summation runs from 46:00-47:30 on this show:head retention Brew Strong EpisodeLooks like its an issue of how modified the malts are...

Cool thanks,for the info.

#17 Kunsan90

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 03:34 PM

Guess this one will be debated long after I'm gone. Several years ago I added protein rest to my mash schedule and have made it a standard. To myself its a base where I start.Posted ImageDominus VobiscumSwagman :)

Swag, is that an AF Ammo pin/badge?

#18 SWAGMAN

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 04:05 PM

Swag, is that an AF Ammo pin/badge?

Where??? If your are talking about the round item on the shelf thats an antique Airmeter Temp and humdityDominus VobiscumSwagman :)

#19 Kunsan90

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 04:14 PM

Where??? If your are talking about the round item on the shelf thats an antique Airmeter Temp and humdityDominus VobiscumSwagman :)

No, I meant your avatar.

#20 brewhead

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 04:27 PM

protein rest - isn't that after you rub one out?


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