20 replies to this topic

[3rd party JKor]

What are people's thoughts on these. I want to put a Saison in my rotation, but the yeast seem pretty variable, at least in terms of attenuation. The 565 is listed at 68-75 (which seems low for a saison) and the 3724 is spec'ed at 76-80. Of course, then there's the WLP566 and WLP568, which quote higher attenuations.Honestly, I think the only saison I've had is Saison DuPont. But it's freakin' good and I'd love to make something along those lines.Anyone fooled around with these strains?

Edited by JKoravos, 14 August 2009 - 06:46 PM.

[MtnBrewer]

WLP565 and 3724 are both the DuPont strain.

[Mashman]

I have a Saison in the primary with WL565. I normally try to keep the fermentation temps. in the 80's. Once it drops into the 70's it seems to take the yeast forever and a day to finish. It also seems to produce a more complex beer at higher fermentation temps.Mashman

[3rd party JKor]

WLP565 and 3724 are both the DuPont strain.

Interesting. It's weird that they list completely different attenuation ranges for the two products. Do you know if one really does attenuate much better than the other?I feel a split batch coming on...

[beerbaron]

I am using safale's T-58 for my Saison. I am cork finishing 10 gallons of it today!!! It is a dried yeast. I am very happy with the results. 13 gallon batch. Free rise method. Fermentation rose to 85 about 14 hours after pitch. It was done in 3 days!!!

[3rd party JKor]

I am using safale's T-58 for my Saison. I am cork finishing 10 gallons of it today!!! It is a dried yeast. I am very happy with the results. 13 gallon batch. Free rise method. Fermentation rose to 85 about 14 hours after pitch. It was done in 3 days!!!

What were your gravities?

[MtnBrewer]

Interesting. It's weird that they list completely different attenuation ranges for the two products. Do you know if one really does attenuate much better than the other?

Not that weird at all. In fact I think all of the attenuation numbers between Wyeast & WL are different. It's probably just differences in the way the two labs measure it (different wort composition for example). That's why I never take attenuation numbers literally. Basically all I'm looking for is whether a yeast is high or low attenuating.

[jayb151]

I made a beer with the new WY private collection Flanders Golden Ale and it tastes what I think is like a saison. Not only that, but it dropped from 1.054 to 1.004!

[3rd party JKor]

Not that weird at all. In fact I think all of the attenuation numbers between Wyeast & WL are different. It's probably just differences in the way the two labs measure it (different wort composition for example). That's why I never take attenuation numbers literally. Basically all I'm looking for is whether a yeast is high or low attenuating.

I'm sure they use slightly different wort standards, but I have a hard time believing that the variation in wort standards would produce attenuation ranges that don't even overlap for the same strain.WLP001: 73-80%; WY1056: 73-77%WLP300: 72-76%; WY3068: 73-77%I don't know what other strains are the "same" off the top of my head. But those two seem to correlate well.

[MtnBrewer]

Well WLP565 *is* the DuPont strain for sure so I don't know what to tell you. I guess my advice would be to ignore the attenuation numbers if you don't believe them and determine your own attenuation.

[3rd party JKor]

Well WLP565 *is* the DuPont strain for sure so I don't know what to tell you. I guess my advice would be to ignore the attenuation numbers if you don't believe them and determine your own attenuation.

I'm not saying your wrong, just that my technical sensibilities tell me that something seems off. Either way I'll experiment with both strains to see what happens.

[Thirsty]

I did my last saison with 3724, and I got a drop from .062 down to .004. Heat is definitely a factor. I like to keep it under 70 though for the first few days, then let it ride into the 70s for a week or so, then let it hit 80. Esters are great, however I think heat right from the getgo will produce harshness, and it will take some time to mellow, if it does at all. So if you have to spend the extra time conditioning- why not spend the extra time fermenting a subtle beer? Just my take on it, some may like a harsh-matter of fact farmhouse flavor, I enjoy the complexity.FWIW I have had better success with 3724 than I did with wlp565. I have read and heard they are the same strain, but even Jamil says he has a tough time getting 565 to dry out, and Chris White says he recommends using a different strain for the bulk of the fermentation and pitching the 565 partway in, it was designed by WL for this method. Their 575 is a blend that is supposed to have this 2 punch together in 1 pack, including the Dupont strain. Havent used it yet, but the specs show a higher atten, and Chris White said that is what most report back for lower FGs.

[beerbaron]

JK-The OG was about 1.056 FG was 1.007. I did measure the OG 10 days after brewing when I transfered to secondary. But the majority of the fermentation was done in 3 days. I pitched 2 packages on about 13 gallons of wort. No rehydration-- I just pitched it.I primed with honey and brettanomyces and cork finished. 6 magnum shampagne bottles38- 750 mL bottles

[3rd party JKor]

I did my last saison with 3724, and I got a drop from .062 down to .004. Heat is definitely a factor. I like to keep it under 70 though for the first few days, then let it ride into the 70s for a week or so, then let it hit 80. Esters are great, however I think heat right from the getgo will produce harshness, and it will take some time to mellow, if it does at all. So if you have to spend the extra time conditioning- why not spend the extra time fermenting a subtle beer? Just my take on it, some may like a harsh-matter of fact farmhouse flavor, I enjoy the complexity.FWIW I have had better success with 3724 than I did with wlp565. I have read and heard they are the same strain, but even Jamil says he has a tough time getting 565 to dry out, and Chris White says he recommends using a different strain for the bulk of the fermentation and pitching the 565 partway in, it was designed by WL for this method. Their 575 is a blend that is supposed to have this 2 punch together in 1 pack, including the Dupont strain. Havent used it yet, but the specs show a higher atten, and Chris White said that is what most report back for lower FGs.

OK, interesting.I was listening to that Jamil Show last week when they had Chris White on talking about their saison strains. Just seems weird that their go-to saison strain can't get the proper attenuation without some additional acrobatics.

[3rd party JKor]

JK-The OG was about 1.056 FG was 1.007. I did measure the OG 10 days after brewing when I transfered to secondary. But the majority of the fermentation was done in 3 days. I pitched 2 packages on about 13 gallons of wort. No rehydration-- I just pitched it.I primed with honey and brettanomyces and cork finished. 6 magnum shampagne bottles38- 750 mL bottles

Brett prime, eh? That's new on me. How'd that affect the flavor?

[MtnBrewer]

I'm not saying you're wrong, just that my technical sensibilities tell me that something seems off. Either way I'll experiment with both strains to see what happens.

I know you're not saying I'm wrong, I'm just saying that the strains are what they are and it really doesn't matter what the attenuation numbers say. What's important is how they ferment your beer. Another thing that may have happened is that the WL strain may have drifted somewhat over time.

[beerbaron]

Brett prime, eh? That's new on me. How'd that affect the flavor?

I am not sure because I bottled on saturday. A friend of mine does it all the time. I like the idea of it because it gives you a shot at being consistent with the brett flavor. I find it difficult to track fermentation and add the brett when the gravity gets down to a certain number. I will bring this to the GABF homebrew tasting. If I can't make it to that I will have it at the falling rock on friday night. I'll be the guy that looks like he has been there all day!

[Thirsty]

I am using safale's T-58 for my Saison.

I just cannot wrap my arms around this strain. I have tried it a few times in a blond, a dubbel and a tripel, and tried fermenting cool, and I just get huge bubblegum/banana- cannot mute it. I think the saison needs a funkier spicier note than what the T-58 can give it. Just my individual taste though. Trust me I would love to make T-58 a go to yeast, just cant do it.

[Jimmy James]

I have used WLP565 several times with great results. If you like DuPont you'll like that yeast. I also have used the WL Saison Blend, and didn't care for it. Yes, it attenuates quicker, but the resulting beer has too much fruit and not enough pepper/spice/phenolic and needs several months in the bottle to age and round off a bit. I can't explain the different attenuation numbers for two products allegedly derived from the same strain but in my brewery the 565 starts off pretty normal and then just slows down to a "slow burn" and takes a while to hit FG. Letting the temp rise in the third day (or so) of fermentation helps out. The results with 565 are worth the wait though.

[beerbaron]

I just cannot wrap my arms around this strain. I have tried it a few times in a blond, a dubbel and a tripel, and tried fermenting cool, and I just get huge bubblegum/banana- cannot mute it. I think the saison needs a funkier spicier note than what the T-58 can give it. Just my individual taste though. Trust me I would love to make T-58 a go to yeast, just cant do it.

I have never used it below 78 degrees. This is good to know though. I am tempted to try it in some small batches at varying temperatures to see where it starts to produce that bannana flavor/smell. I can say that it works like a champ in the 80s.