14 replies to this topic

[Brownbeard]

OK. So we got the yeast and hops down. Now for the fruit in this weekends wheat beer. My 2 questions are:1. How much?My current thought on a recipe is 5lb 2-row Pale Malt4lb White Wheat malt1 oz Spalt (4.3 AA) at 60 min.WLP10564lb frozen apricots (is that enough?)2. How the hell?Should I puree and put them in the bottom of secondary, then pitch secondary on top? Or move the beer to secondary and put the fruit in after?

[tjthresh]

That's doesn't seem like enought fruit to me. I'd double it. Seriously.

[Big Nake]

If they're frozen, the juices should run pretty good when they thaw. I would get some water to about 160° and then steep the fruit in there to "sanitize" it, they try to mash that up as best as possible and get it into the secondary... easier said than done. A funnel could work. Then rack the beer on top. Remember that the fruit will take up space and possibly expand so are you going to use a 6½ gallon carboy for this? I can't see a 5 gallon vessel being big enough. You can also expect to see a secondary fermentation kick up because of the sugars in the fruit. It's also possible that the secondary fermentation could dry out the beer. Because of this, I think mashing high or using some amount of unfermentables could be good. The secondary fermentation can go on (very slowly) for quite awhile too. I have tried this with frozen raspberries, strawberries, blueberries and blackberries and had some very dry, jet fuel-like beer. I hope it comes out good.

[Brownbeard]

If they're frozen, the juices should run pretty good when they thaw. I would get some water to about 160° and then steep the fruit in there to "sanitize" it, they try to mash that up as best as possible and get it into the secondary... easier said than done. A funnel could work. Then rack the beer on top. Remember that the fruit will take up space and possibly expand so are you going to use a 6½ gallon carboy for this? I can't see a 5 gallon vessel being big enough. You can also expect to see a secondary fermentation kick up because of the sugars in the fruit. It's also possible that the secondary fermentation could dry out the beer. Because of this, I think mashing high or using some amount of unfermentables could be good. The secondary fermentation can go on (very slowly) for quite awhile too. I have tried this with frozen raspberries, strawberries, blueberries and blackberries and had some very dry, jet fuel-like beer. I hope it comes out good.

I am not tied to the frozen. I am looking for advice. If the Oregon purees are better, I can go that route. What do you normally use? I am not opposed to using extract, for that matter.

[CaptRon]

I am not tied to the frozen. I am looking for advice. If the Oregon purees are better, I can go that route. What do you normally use? I am not opposed to using extract, for that matter.

For the extracts are you referring to the little bottle of fruit flavorings? I have a few of those that my buddy gave me a good while ago but I've been unsure how to use them, or how much or what not.

[Big Nake]

I just had an extended conversation about this with ChadM (from the GB, he is over here now). The conclusion that I reached is that if I envision a nice lemon wheat, rapsberry pale ale or strawberry blonde, I really don't care what I have to do to get there, as long as the beer is good. I know a lot of brewers would prefer to use real fruit and others are sitting on a huge pile of apples or whatever. So, one of my fruit beers was made with McCormick Natural raspberry extract I got at the grocery store. This is the stuff they use in raspberry brownies, etc. and it smells and tastes MUCH better than the LD Carlson stuff you get at the LHBS. This stuff smells fresh & clean and it's not cough-syrupy. I have also read articles where people put 2 of the small tubs of lemon Crystal Light into their kegs and rack on top. I have not done this, but I read that it adds the perfect lemon flavor to a wheat beer. Also, I made a blonde ale and my plan was to make it a strawberry blonde, but I wasn't sure what I was going to do. I was standing in the grocery store rubbing my chin, standing in the "drink mix" aisle. I grabbed 2 small packets (each makes 2 qts) of unsweetened strawberry Kool-aid and added that to the keg. It came out just as I wanted it to. The flavor was subtle but tart and noticeable. I mentioned to Chad that some buds were drinking some of it and one of the girls said, "I think I have a couple of the seeds in the bottom of my beerglass!" and I was snickering to myself like, Yeah, that will happen! Also, the Oregon Purees are less mess, but you still have the sugars so there will be a secondary fermentation when you add it.One more thing... there are places all over the web that sell fruit extracts for all sorts of things. They come in almost every flavor and are usually sugar-free and all-natural.

[Cliff Claven]

I have made a Kiwi Wit beer with 4lb of Kiwi.I added it to the boil kettle cubed, pita. And pureed into the fermentor w/o "pasteurizing". No problems.The beer has always been a hit.

[Sidney Porter]

real fruit is going to add alcohol so keep that in mind if you want to keep it real light in alcohol. I would use either frozen fruit or the orgon puree. If frozen I would not mess around with sanitizing it I would add it to the bottom of secondary and rack on top and leave it for a few weeks. I would do the same with the puree. I would plan on under fruiting it than over fruiting it.After 2ndary I would pour off 5-6 2 oz samples. I would then add one drop of extract to the2nd one, 2 to the 3rd, etc (I would not add any to 1 of them). Pick which one you like the best and scale up the number of drops for the batch size.So frozen or canned for the bulk of the flavor dial it in with a little bit of extract.I have used the target brand (archer farms) of extract to dial in before, the flavor was good but it has artificial colors. Made a bright orange mango beer, the head was orange stained the beer lines.

[Trub L]

real fruit is going to add alcohol so keep that in mind if you want to keep it real light in alcohol. I would use either frozen fruit or the orgon puree. If frozen I would not mess around with sanitizing it I would add it to the bottom of secondary and rack on top and leave it for a few weeks. I would do the same with the puree. I would plan on under fruiting it than over fruiting it.After 2ndary I would pour off 5-6 2 oz samples. I would then add one drop of extract to the2nd one, 2 to the 3rd, etc (I would not add any to 1 of them). Pick which one you like the best and scale up the number of drops for the batch size.So frozen or canned for the bulk of the flavor dial it in with a little bit of extract.I have used the target brand (archer farms) of extract to dial in before, the flavor was good but it has artificial colors. Made a bright orange mango beer, the head was orange stained the beer lines.

This is something I've never quite understood how to quantify. Is there a good way to estimate the amount of alcohol certain fruits will add? Do you assume an "extraction efficiency"? Can you even assume some amount of fermentable sugars? Will it depend heavily on the type of yeast? I always have just treated fruit as a flavor addition, but never really tried to work out the impact to ABV.

[Brownbeard]

This is something I've never quite understood how to quantify. Is there a good way to estimate the amount of alcohol certain fruits will add? Do you assume an "extraction efficiency"? Can you even assume some amount of fermentable sugars? Will it depend heavily on the type of yeast? I always have just treated fruit as a flavor addition, but never really tried to work out the impact to ABV.

Beer smith has fruit as grain/extract additions. I can't imagine it's accurate, as the sugar content of ever piece of fruit is different. I am not going to concern myself too much with the alcohol addition. Just keep in mind that it will be present.

[Bearphin]

The last apricot wheat I made was with the puree. Came out really good!! Was even better the longer it sat in the bottle!I prefer using the puree's myself just because I made a peach weiss once and some of the peaches were over ripe and it caused a real bitter flavor. Only batch I have ever thrown out.

[BFB]

Hmmmm.....I've never been much for the idea of adding fruit to beer...but this conversation has me interested.I do make a vanilla blonde that goes over quite good (3- vanilla beans cut up , scraped, soaked in vodka and added to secondary)...and now the thought of a strawbeery blonde has me intrigued. Although Ken's Kool Aid experiment sounds like it worked...I'd probably try frozen. So....you that have done it....how much (weight) frozen starwberries do you think a guy would add to a 5- gallon secondary? I'd like the flavor to be noticeable...but not overwhelming.

[Bearphin]

Strawberries are tough cause they are much more subtle in their flavor then something like raspberries.Last time I did one I used 4-5 lbs and it was subtle but noticeable.

[Big Nake]

Yeah, I was going to say 4-5 lbs easy. They should also be frozen, IMO... when they thaw, the juices will flow nicely. But the strawberries will expand and take up some space so have a 6½ gallon primary available to use as secondary. I also make a vanilla cream/blonde ale and it's very nice to have around once in awhile. The strawberry blonde is a nice beer to have around in the spring/summer and a number of people can enjoy it, not just wives/girlfriends. I admit that the "unsweetened drink mix" was sheer asshatery but at that point, I didn't have many other options and the only LD Carlson strawberry extract was actually Strawberry-Kiwi and I didn't want to go in that direction. Cheers and good luck.

[Sidney Porter]

This is something I've never quite understood how to quantify. Is there a good way to estimate the amount of alcohol certain fruits will add? Do you assume an "extraction efficiency"? Can you even assume some amount of fermentable sugars? Will it depend heavily on the type of yeast? I always have just treated fruit as a flavor addition, but never really tried to work out the impact to ABV.

Beer smith has fruit as grain/extract additions. I can't imagine it's accurate, as the sugar content of ever piece of fruit is different. I am not going to concern myself too much with the alcohol addition. Just keep in mind that it will be present.

I think all the sugars are going to be fermented I would think they are simple sugars.you can measure the brix of the juice easily with a refractometer, but I don't know a good way to calculated volume of fementerable based upon lbs of fruit and brix.