17 replies to this topic

[denny]

The only definitive test I've seen in a homebrew situation resulted in the beer that didn't use olive oil being preferred in a blind tasting. No one has ever posted empirical results of its use in starters that I'm aware of. Many people say it works great, but I haven't seen proof. No offense intended, if you think it worked for you that's great.

[Big Nake]

I though I read someplace that the amount of olive oil you would need for this is like dipping a needle into olive oil and then using the amount on the needle in your starter or primary. This is an unbelievably small amount of olive oil. I guess I also don't get why this helps to aerate the wort.

[JoshLikesBeer]

This is an unbelievably small amount of olive oil. I guess I also don't get why this helps to aerate the wort.

What I read somewhere is that the reason wort needs to be aerated is because yeast needs oxygen to synthesize the chemical compounds it will need to grow and reproduce. That tiny amount of olive oil contains all of those compounds, so adding it will supposedly eliminate the need to aerate.I'm not a chemist, so my understanding is pretty fuzzy.

[BrewerGeorge]

I though I read someplace that the amount of olive oil you would need for this is like dipping a needle into olive oil and then using the amount on the needle in your starter or primary. This is an unbelievably small amount of olive oil. I guess I also don't get why this helps to aerate the wort.

That's what I remember, too. Has to be really good olive oil, too, the fruitier the better.

[beach]

I've used olive oil with most of my starters with pleasing results. I've read a thesis on the subject a number of times link here---> https://www.brewcraz...-oil-thesis.pdf I encourage those that are interested to read this paper; interesting stuff & the research was conducted at New Belguim Brewery. The use of Extra Virgin olive oil is the key. Read the paper & try the EEVO. I don't sugest that we stop aerating our wort, but the unsaturated fat in EEVO is good for the little yeasties

[JReigle]

I've never tried this. Mainly because I'm currently satisfied with my aeration techniques and am afraid to put any amount of oil into my beer. Well, aside from hop oils.I've also heard that doing this can increase staling reactions and reduce shelf-life - does anybody know the details on that?

[djinkc]

IIRC it is a shortcut for sterols that need to be in the mix. I've tried it a couple times and decided not to screw with it anymore - but IMSO it worked. No blind tests but I went back to just aerating with the cordless drill.

[dagomike]

As I recall the goal is to limit oxidation in packaged beer. Commercial beer is exposed to far harsher conditions than homebrew, so never was so sure about the hubbub.

[chuck_d]

As I recall the goal is to limit oxidation in packaged beer. Commercial beer is exposed to far harsher conditions than homebrew, so never was so sure about the hubbub.

Yeah, it's about placing the products that yeast would create from the oxygen for use in their cell walls while not exposing the wort to oxygen to retard the staling processes. Edit: I've got a PDF I'll have to dig up and post.Edit 2: It's not a PDF, it's a Word Doc. It's from Grady Hull based on an experiment he did at New Belgium. Attaching it here, which I think is cool because I got it from some random post before. Grady, if you see this post holla if you want it deleted and linked to instead of attached. I didn't see a link in the doc so I had to attach.DOH! it's 552KB, and the limit is 500KB.

Edited by chuck_d, 03 April 2009 - 05:49 PM.

[chuck_d]

DOH! it's 552KB, and the limit is 500KB.

Which is why they made zip. Here's a zip file, no password, with the doc file inside.

[nitroglycerin11]

I use EVOO in every batch I brew. As far as my aeration goes, I always pass my wort through a double ss strainer, which does a decent job of aeration in and of itself. Then I dip a sanitized toothpick or a twist-tie into the oil and then into the beer swirling the toothpick. The resulting beer as been fantastic. There has been no resulting difference in taste n my experience. I still do a bit of aeration (see ss strainer) for the purposes of the need for continued sterol (cholesterol) synthesis required for membrane integrity.

[MtnBrewer]

Which is why they made zip. Here's a zip file, no password, with the doc file inside.

I hosted the paper here so that you can conserve your attachment space, Chuck.

[earthtone]

I believe the yeast need sterols to maintain membrane fluidity,strength and viability under the osmotic pressure and hostile alcohol environment of the wort. Much like humans have choleSTEROL to maintain the membrane viability of our own cells, escpecially under temperature fluctuations or extremes ie. more strength and fluidity when temps and cold and more rigidity and higher melting point at warmer temps. Cells regulate all of these things so you want to provide healthy lipids and sterols for them to use in their regulatory processes. The thing about olive oil, is even with humans, the lipids (fatty acids) in the olive oil can be used directly in membrane synthesis, brought in via endocytosis. This gives the yeast a healthy fatty acid, low stress (no synthesis involved) way to build robust membranes and handle the growing pressures of an extremely sugary solution and an extremely poisonous anaerobic environment.Not sure how much is effective and how to best get it into solution and useable by the yeast? (aeration maybe?) But this makes sense from a cell bio perspective....

[denny]

But this makes sense from a cell bio perspective....

Sure does. But what many have found is that it really makes no difference in a real world homebrewing application.

[earthtone]

Sure does. But what many have found is that it really makes no difference in a real world homebrewing application.

exactly why I didn't proclaim it would work - there's no guarantee the olive oil will get used by the yeast... but the potential is definitely there. Some conclusive experimental results are definitely necessary here... let the brewing commence!

[denny]

exactly why I didn't proclaim it would work - there's no guarantee the olive oil will get used by the yeast... but the potential is definitely there. Some conclusive experimental results are definitely necessary here... let the brewing commence!

The closest thing I've seen to real experimental results on a homebrew level were posted by Vance Barnes on B&V. I'll try to dig up a link and post it here.