11 replies to this topic

[Thirsty]

My plan was to pitch tomorrow's batch of dubbel onto a cake of wlp530, that currently has a tripel on it. I just checked the gravity and I am at .020. Now it started at .091, so I saw a 71 pt drop (in 3 weeks) and got 78%AA, but how do the monks get theirs down in the single digits? My answer would be fermentability.And that is why I took caution to produce a highly fermentable wort. 30# pils, 1#aromatic, 1# white wheat, mashed at 146 for 90 minutes. Added 5# of cane sugar (boiled and cooled) at 5 days into ferment, to try to max out atten. Made a 1 gallon starter with great activity per fermenter- 2 gallons total, lots of slurry. Airated with direct O2 for 1 minute each fermenter. Started ferm at 66 deg for first week to keep esters down, then added heat to slowly rise to 80. Now this is my white whale. I can never get my tripels as low as the monks say they do in BLAM. Westmalle dubbel is supposed to finish at .008, and I usually see most tripels at low teens. Am I asking for too much to get lower than .020? White Labs says this will give 75-80%AA which I got, but what conditions are these guys using to get that extra 7-10 points out? I dont want to raise the temp too quick to avoid fusels, maybe I should try raising 3 days in instead of 1 week?Oh and I forgot I checked my thermos regularly, so I know my mash temps are on

Edited by Thirsty, 06 August 2009 - 10:45 AM.

[Deerslyr]

My plan was to pitch tomorrow's batch of dubbel onto a cake of wlp530, that currently has a tripel on it. I just checked the gravity and I am at .020. Now it started at .091, so I saw a 71 pt drop (in 3 weeks) and got 78%AA, but how do the monks get theirs down in the single digits? My answer would be fermentability.And that is why I took caution to produce a highly fermentable wort. 30# pils, 1#aromatic, 1# white wheat, mashed at 146 for 90 minutes. Added 5# of cane sugar (boiled and cooled) at 5 days into ferment, to try to max out atten. Made a 1 gallon starter with great activity per fermenter- 2 gallons total, lots of slurry. Airated with direct O2 for 1 minute each fermenter. Started ferm at 66 deg for first week to keep esters down, then added heat to slowly rise to 80. Now this is my white whale. I can never get my tripels as low as the monks say they do in BLAM. Westmalle dubbel is supposed to finish at .008, and I usually see most tripels at low teens. Am I asking for too much to get lower than .020? White Labs says this will give 75-80%AA which I got, but what conditions are these guys using to get that extra 7-10 points out? I dont want to raise the temp too quick to avoid fusels, maybe I should try raising 3 days in instead of 1 week?Oh and I forgot I checked my thermos regularly, so I know my mash temps are on

What was your grain to water ratio? Was your mash thin or thick?Also, would you want to try some beano??? Just a thought. Never done it myself, but I've heard rumor of guys using it to squeek out some more fermentables.

[sam]

Oh and I forgot I checked my thermos regularly, so I know my mash temps are on

Sounds like you're doing everything right... the question is, how does it taste? I mean does it taste as dry as you'd like? If it does, who cares what the hydrometer says. Actually, now that I think about it, maybe it's your hydrometer that needs calibrating. One of mine used to read a couple of points high (I tossed it in the trash since then). I must've bounced it when putting it back one day... I think the paper inside the glass slipped ever so slightly.

[Thirsty]

What was your grain to water ratio? Was your mash thin or thick?Also, would you want to try some beano??? Just a thought. Never done it myself, but I've heard rumor of guys using it to squeek out some more fermentables.

1.25 qts / #I have heard of some horror stories- I am going to avoid the beano. (on a side note I heard if you send back 5 UPC labels they will mail you a free "windbreaker"!)

Sounds like you're doing everything right... the question is, how does it taste? I mean does it taste as dry as you'd like? If it does, who cares what the hydrometer says. Actually, now that I think about it, maybe it's your hydrometer that needs calibrating. One of mine used to read a couple of points high (I tossed it in the trash since then). I must've bounced it when putting it back one day... I think the paper inside the glass slipped ever so slightly.

Unfortunately it does taste sweet to me. I know 3 vols of carb will alleviate some of that, but I still want that dry subtleness.I did check my hydro which is 4 points off, I calculate that into my readings. good thought though.

[stellarbrew]

I have no experience with doing this, but I have read where some people will rouse the yeast by gently stirring at regular intervals, late in the fermentation, in order to maximize attenuation. Just a thought.

[Deerslyr]

1.25 qts / #I have heard of some horror stories- I am going to avoid the beano. (on a side note I heard if you send back 5 UPC labels they will mail you a free "windbreaker"!)

All things being equal, would you consider bumping up to 1.4 or more??? If you are looking for better attenuation, then why not try thinning down the mash some more. If you aren't introducing beano, and the goal is to attenuate more, then why not?Oh, I forgot to ask (partly because I don't do it myself, so it wasn't at the top of my head), but did you oxygenate your wort? As for the windbreaker promotion... "Classic!"

[NWPines]

Unfortunately I can't think of too much to suggest, since it sounds like you've hit most of the basics. About 14% cane sugar, mostly pils malt, long mash at low temp, large pitch rate, good oxygenation. Maybe add the cane sugar sooner in the fermentation? I've actually started adding it to the end of the boil and haven't seen any decrease in attenuation. Just easier for me that way. Try rousing the yeast by agitating the fermenter a couple times a day towards the end of the ferment. I use 3787 (same as WLP530) in my Tipels and typically get attenuation in the mid to upper 80% range, but my ferments are pretty long (up to 6 weeks for a big Tripel). Usually takes a good week or two just to drop those last several points. Most of my tripels start around 1.080 and end around 1.010.

[Thirsty]

but my ferments are pretty long (up to 6 weeks for a big Tripel). Usually takes a good week or two just to drop those last several points. Most of my tripels start around 1.080 and end around 1.010.

Maybe I am just jumping the gun some here because my last tripel didnt finish low, even after 5 weeks. I will give this one another couple weeks.

[dondewey]

Yeah, it might drop a couple more points. I don't remember reading this in BLAM, but in the farmhouse ales book they mention that Dupont's strategy of very slowly raising the temp of the sach rest to get the most attenuatable wort. I don't know how much this process is responsible for the dryness, but it might help. Might a mixed culture of a few belgian strains be worth trying?

[Thirsty]

Might a mixed culture of a few belgian strains be worth trying?

Well it is ironic you say that, because a week earlier I pulled 2 gallons off of it at .035ish and pitched some brett lambicus and pedio into that 2 gallons for S&Gs and a side experiment.

[drewseslu]

66 is pretty cool for a Belgian Ale fermentation. Consider starting at 70dF and going from there. In homebrewing I have usually mashed low and slow and used plenty of sugar for strong Belgian ales. Then I cool it to a reasonable temp, like mid sixties to high sixties, pitch yeast and just let it go until it finishes, sometimes in a couple weeks, other times months.Since pro brewing, though, with a wort mashed on the cool side and adequate sugar augmentation, I have had no problem reaching 80% attenuantion with my Dubbel in a few days. Brewing a Wit for the starter, helps, of course.

[MAZ]

1.091 seems a little high for any beer you expect to finish below 1.010. A 1.077 wort that finishes at 1.008 is 9% abv... which is right where a tripel typically clocks in. I just don't think it's a realistic expectation for this particular brew to get that low. I'm with Sam on this one... how does it taste?