16 replies to this topic

[brewman]

When adding the grains in Bru'n water what do i add Rye under, Base, Crystal, Roast, acid.Dan

[Mya]

When adding the grains in Bru'n water what do i add Rye under, Base, Crystal, Roast, acid.Dan

if you mean rye malt, base

[positiveContact]

i would guess base.

[brewman]

Thanks.

[Brauer]

The calculator might not be very predictive for Rye Malt, if it is like Wheat Malt, but I would still enter it as Base Malt. I don't use Rye Malt, so I can't speak from experience, but those calculators are usually based on the behavior of Barley Malts.

[Mya]

The calculator might not be very predictive for Rye Malt, if it is like Wheat Malt, but I would still enter it as Base Malt. I don't use Rye Malt, so I can't speak from experience, but those calculators are usually based on the behavior of Barley Malts.

ahhh

[denny]

The calculator might not be very predictive for Rye Malt, if it is like Wheat Malt, but I would still enter it as Base Malt. I don't use Rye Malt, so I can't speak from experience, but those calculators are usually based on the behavior of Barley Malts.

Brunwater treats rye malt as a base malt, as it should. A recipe calculator may teat it differently, but for water calcs base malt is the right way to go.

[Clintama]

EZ Water has 8 different base malts listed, none of which are rye.

[Brauer]

From what I could find, Rye Malt is supposed to have a distilled water mash pH a lot like Wheat Malt, which is ~6.0. Pale colored barley malt is usually ~5.75 pH in distilled water. At 20% Rye Malt, this should make the mash 0.5-0.1 pH higher than you would expect from the color of the Rye, at least before considering other specialty malts and salt additions.Most calculators won't allow you to correct for this, just lumping Wheat and Rye into the base malt category. The advanced water calculator at Brewersfriend.com allows you to use either Lovibond or distilled water pH to set the effect of each grain.

[Mya]

From what I could find, Rye Malt is supposed to have a distilled water mash pH a lot like Wheat Malt, which is ~6.0. Pale colored barley malt is usually ~5.75 pH in distilled water. At 20% Rye Malt, this should make the mash 0.5-0.1 pH higher than you would expect from the color of the Rye, at least before considering other specialty malts and salt additions.Most calculators won't allow you to correct for this, just lumping Wheat and Rye into the base malt category. The advanced water calculator at Brewersfriend.com allows you to use either Lovibond or distilled water pH to set the effect of each grain.

ohhh a new toy !

[Brauer]

ohhh a new toy !

It's kind of cool because you could check the pH of a few micro-mashes of the current lots of your favorite grains and get a personalized mash pH prediction. Kai's model is pretty solid, but there are occasional outliers, like Wheat on the high side and Rahr 2-row on the low side, that don't fit the current mash pH models.

[denny]

From what I could find, Rye Malt is supposed to have a distilled water mash pH a lot like Wheat Malt, which is ~6.0. Pale colored barley malt is usually ~5.75 pH in distilled water. At 20% Rye Malt, this should make the mash 0.5-0.1 pH higher than you would expect from the color of the Rye, at least before considering other specialty malts and salt additions.Most calculators won't allow you to correct for this, just lumping Wheat and Rye into the base malt category. The advanced water calculator at Brewersfriend.com allows you to use either Lovibond or distilled water pH to set the effect of each grain.

Gotcha. Thanks flor the explanation. I'll ask Martin about it. Kai's Brewersfriend calculator is great, but the fact that it's web only makes it a non starter for me. BTW, Martin has written about how Rahr malt is more acid and I _think_ he somehow adjusts for that.

Edited by denny, 06 April 2013 - 11:45 AM.

[Brauer]

BTW, Martin has written about how Rahr malt is more acid and I _think_ he somehow adjusts for that.

It turns out that EZ Water Calculator also has an option for Wheat, which could be used for Rye Malt.I suppose you could use Rahr Pale Malt and Rye Malt in the same beer and negate their opposite effects on pH. Which is probably exactly what you do for your RIPA, now that I think about it!

[denny]

It turns out that EZ Water Calculator also has an option for Wheat, which could be used for Rye Malt.I suppose you could use Rahr Pale Malt and Rye Malt in the same beer and negate their opposite effects on pH. Which is probably exactly what you do for your RIPA, now that I think about it!

Wow, what a cool coincidence!

[denny]

From what I could find, Rye Malt is supposed to have a distilled water mash pH a lot like Wheat Malt, which is ~6.0. Pale colored barley malt is usually ~5.75 pH in distilled water. At 20% Rye Malt, this should make the mash 0.5-0.1 pH higher than you would expect from the color of the Rye, at least before considering other specialty malts and salt additions.Most calculators won't allow you to correct for this, just lumping Wheat and Rye into the base malt category. The advanced water calculator at Brewersfriend.com allows you to use either Lovibond or distilled water pH to set the effect of each grain.

So, I emailed Martin about this. Here's his reply...I have never seen wheat malt produce a higher than typical mash pH. I've seen the reports that wheat malt has a distilled water pH of 6, but that has not proven to be the case for me. In fact, I brewed a Hefe with 60% wheat a few weeks ago. The mash pH was 0.04 higher than predicted. I did not make any adjustments for the wheat malt response in the program. I think part of the reason is that the pH scale is logarithmic and the 0.2 unit difference that might exist between base malt and wheat malt doesn't make a lot of difference in practice.As I noted above, the difference in pH was inconsequential when I used 60% wheat malt. I doubt that 20% rye would make any difference at all.

[Brauer]

At 20% Rye Malt, this should make the mash 0.5-0.1 pH higher than you would expect from the color of the Rye...

I just noticed a typo in that line, which should read "0.05-0.1 pH higher". That would be in distilled water.

The mash pH was 0.04 higher than predicted.

It looks like his observation is not so far out of line. Kai's calculator would predict that it would have been high, but closer to 0.08 pH points high. It is probably going to vary with brand and lot, though.It's not something that I, personally, would worry about, but if I was brewing with alkaline water I would pay closer attention to the potential effect of Rye and Wheat on pH, since it might be enough to push you over the edge.

[denny]

Agreed. For almost all of us, it's a non issue. And if you have heavily alkaline water, you should be doing something about it, anyway.