57 replies to this topic

[Big Nake]

I don't think it will matter. The problem with water is that it leaches ions from the probe, which makes it take longer to form a stable reading. I wouldn't think that it would matter in the short term.

Thanks for the reply. I could just wait until I have all of the solutions I need and then do it properly. I suppose I would hate to get off on the wrong foot with the meter right out of the box. It's possible that all of the solutions would be here by Friday and I could use the meter for my Saturday brewday but if not, maybe I'll just use the strips this time and wait until the next brewday. Cheers.

[Big Nake]

I ordered some solutions for this meter and they arrived today. I placed the meter into the storage solution for 3 hours (directions say 2 to 4 is good) and then I walked through the calibration process. You place the meter in the 7.0 solution and it reads it and then it says to place it in the 4.0. When I did that, the screen showed WRNG and I assume I did something... um ... wrong. So I started over. The same thing happened but it went past WRNG and went to OK2 which means it calibrated and ready to use. The timing is good because I plan to brew tomorrow and I will compare the results of the meter to the strips and see how close they are. There is a good video for the process below. Not sure where this guy is from but it's somewhere "south" and he's got the golden pipes.

Edited by KenLenard, 22 February 2013 - 04:23 PM.

[Brauer]

When I use a pH meter that I don't have a history with, I perform the calibration then re-read the standards (without re-calibration) to make sure it reads them accurately.

[Big Nake]

When I use a pH meter that I don't have a history with, I perform the calibration then re-read the standards (without re-calibration) to make sure it reads them accurately.

Yeah, that's good. I tried it one more time and got the WRNG message again so I looked it up. I found an online PDF that said that when you see that message, the solution is no good. This was the standard Milwaukee pouch (mustard packet) with the 4.01 solution in it. The expiry date was sometime in 2017. So I poured it out and poured some new 4.01 from the larger bottle and then the calibration process went smoothly. I can already see why people hate these things. I haven't even used it yet and I'm already getting to know the little ins and outs of it. It seems like one of those "it's always gonna be something with you, isn't it?" kind of things. I don't like it already.

[Big Nake]

Okay, here's an update. I just got my mash started about 15 mins ago. I got a small sample of my wort into a frozen shotglass so it could cool down and while I waited for that, I took the pH of the wort in the MT with a ColorpHast strip. It read about 5.0 which is what I ordinarily shoot for (the correction factor of -0.3 would put it at 5.3). My beer color is SRM 13 and the grains plus my additions (calcium chloride and gypsum) all come to an ideal SRM of 7 to 12 so my thought was that my pH might be a little low. I calibrated the pH meter and took the sample of the wort and it came to about 5.8. I calibrated it again (this is like the 10th time I have calibrated it) and it came to about 5.8 again. Not wanting to believe it's off, I decided to take the pH of my tap water. I have gotten Ward samples back twice and it was 6.6 both times. Many other Lake Michigan water brewers have posted their numbers and it's also 6.6. I was at a local brewpub a couple of years ago working with a guy in the brewery who was over his head... he asked me what the pH of Chicago water was and I told him 6.6. He whipped out a pH meter (one that looked quite impressive) and took a sample of tap water. 6.6. He looked at me like I was crazy. When I just checked mine, it showed about 7.2 - 7.3. About .6 higher than I would expect. It also seems like my wort sample should be around 5.2 - 5.3 and the meter read 5.8. Who do I believe? Is my tap water test enough to tell me that this meter is either inaccurate or I'm just doing something wrong? I did not adjust the mash downward. I had lactic acid in my hand and was about to lower it but then I did the tap water test. Thoughts?

[MtnBrewer]

Retest your calibration buffers?

[Big Nake]

I used the original ones and when I didn't like the message "WRNG" that came up, I replaced all three... storage, 4.0 and 7.0 and calibrated it again. The calibration process went smoother but the readings were the same. Again, I would hate to say the strips are more reliable or accurate but I thought the tap water test was particularly telling.EDIT: Just now I went full circle and tested my tap water with a ColorpHast strip. The pH showed right around 6.5 or so (it's sort of a dark blue color on these strips and trickier to read) but this would be a room-temp(ish) sample and it was right near 6.6 on the key.

Edited by KenLenard, 23 February 2013 - 12:47 PM.

[Brauer]

Without recalibrating your meter, take the pH of the 2 buffers.

[Big Nake]

Without recalibrating your meter, take the pH of the 2 buffers.

I did. They drifted high. I put it into the 7.0 solution and it went to 7.4 - 7.5. Then I placed it in the 4.0 and it dropped quickly but stopped around 4.7 - 4.8. This started a short burst of swearing and then I changed the solutions (which were already brand new) from the larger bottles, calibrated again and test the solutions again. Same result.

[HVB]

Maybe I don't want the PH meter that I ordered

[Brauer]

It sounds like something is going wrong with the calibration.

[Big Nake]

When I calibrate the meter with new solutions it runs through the process smoothly. Start in the 7.0, go into CAL mode, wait for it to say "OK 1" then it says "4.0 USE", you quickly pick it up and move it to 4.0 where it goes through the routine and eventually says "OK 2" and then just goes into measuring mode where it says "4.0". If I turn it off and measure the solutions again, they're high. I'm moving into "boil mode" on my brewday so I'm putting this behind me for now and I'll pick it back up again later. If I can't see a way to trust it, well... I won't trust it.

[Brauer]

If I turn it off and measure the solutions again, they're high.

I wouldn't turn it off after I calibrated it. I would turn it on, calibrate it, use it, then turn it off when I put it away.

[Big Nake]

I wouldn't turn it off after I calibrated it. I would turn it on, calibrate it, use it, then turn it off when I put it away.

Every time? Ugh.

[MtnBrewer]

Do you have to do something to save the calibration? I'm thinking if you turn if off before saving then it will forget the calibration. Straws...grasping.

[Big Nake]

Do you have to do something to save the calibration? I'm thinking if you turn if off before saving then it will forget the calibration. Straws...grasping.

During the calibration mode, it's "recording" the settings so there is no saving. The vid I posted shows the process and mine does go through that process although is doesn't go as quickly as the vid shows. Next brewday I will run through the calibration again, leave it on and get my reading. I'll also use the strips to see how they compare. I will also say that in many of my batches over the past year or so, the recipe, the water and additions have all been put together to get very close on mash pH anyway. In quite a few cases, there is no mash pH adjustment necessary at all. In others, I might add ½ml of lactic acid to the mash to lower the pH. The strips support that as well. I won't count this meter out but I have had fancy-schmancy digital thermos that were wrong and also ritzy-titzy digital scales that were off as well. All these hoity-toity gadgets are killing me. At least my Thermapen seems to be working okay... Or is it?

[stlinch]

Did you rinse between solutions with RO/distilled water?

[Big Nake]

Did you rinse between solutions with RO/distilled water?

I wondered about this but the video and also the manual both say to move the meter from one solution to the other VERY QUICKLY and neither one mentions anything about rinsing the probe during calibration. After I had the meter in my wort for the reading, I poured some bottled water into a glass and rinsed the probe that way. I did wonder about drops of one solution going into the other solution and changing the pH of it (especially the 4.0 since it's the second and last stop) but if you watch that video, that's exactly what I did... no rinsing in between.

Edited by KenLenard, 24 February 2013 - 08:02 AM.

[Big Nake]

With a new mindset, I went down to my beer bunker this morning and had my meter, storage solution, 4.0 and 7.0 solutions and also a shotglass of tap water. I ran through the calibration process as normal and it went well. It took quite a bit longer than it shows in the vid but I remember someone saying this could happen when the meter is new. Then, with the unit still on (never turned it off), I placed the probe in the storage solution (which I believe is around pH 4.0 because they say you can use the 4.0 solution as a storage solution) and it measured 4.0. Then to the 7.0 solution where it read 7.0 and finally to the 4.0 where it read 4.0. As I was waiting for it to stabilize, I re-read the small sheet that came with the meter and saw where it said to 'stir gently' while the meter is taking a reading and wait for it to stabilize. This might be an important step because the meter seemed to move quicker after a gentle stir. Then I moved it over to the tap water where it slowly started climbing from 4.0 into the 5s and then it slowed down. I stirred it up a little and it took off towards the mid 6s and finally stopped at 6.6 after a couple of minutes. This is very encouraging but I can't see anything different about what I did today than yesterday except the stirring (although I'm pretty sure I was stirring my wort mixture) and the fact that I didn't turn the meter off during the whole thing (Brauer mentioned this). But at one point the meter shut itself off possibly because of inactivity... I turned it back on and the rest of the measurements seemed correct.Also... when you guys take a sample of wort, do you typically have chunks of grain in the sample too? Is it necessary for it to only be liquid? Wasn't sure on that. I will try this meter again on the next brewday to see if it's improving, learning, getting broken-in, etc. Thanks for the help gang.

[SchwanzBrewer]

Sorta on topic. I have PH strips that I use occasionally. They are the plastic ones. I'd take a reading and it always appeared low. I just took a reading on some distilled water and it never changed color. Threw them in the trash. Anyone have a source for decent ones that actually at least sorta work?