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#1 BFB

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 12:33 PM

Why is it that lager recipes use so much Pilsner malt? I mean...why not regular old 2- row pale malt like Mrris Otter and such. /dumb question

#2 BrianBrewerKS

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 12:35 PM

My uneducated guess is that it just sounds better to have Pilsner malt in a lager. I don't think there's anything wrong with MO in a lager. Hope not...I've done it many times!

#3 MtnBrewer

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 12:38 PM

There are probably a number different reasons. One is that a lot of lagers are very pale and you need the palest malt you can find. Another is that lagers usually don't have a huge malt flavor. And I think some of it has to do with tradition -- it's what they use because it's what they've always used.It's not a dumb question by the way.

#4 Big Nake

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 12:44 PM

I agree it's not a dumb question. There was a post on the GB and someone wanted the lightest, least-offensive beer they could make. I think it was GeorgeSchmidt who suggested that they use American 2-row instead of Pilsner malt... that way it wouldn't taste too "German". Anyway, I have been making a few Czech Lagers lately and they have all been made with various types of good-old American 2-row... Rahr, Briess, Great Midwest, Brewer's Choice, etc.

#5 Humperdink

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 12:50 PM

That's pretty much what I do also ken, especially when the malt isn't the shining star. It's a lot cheaper too! $75 for a sack of weyermann pilsner malt compared to 44 for Rahr 2- row of the same lovibond. Generally for german lagers I'll mix the pilsner and Am. 2-row. The pilsner has a distinct character as I think it is kilned differently, maybe someone else can chime in and validate that... but not distinct enough for me to justify the added cost of a large portion of the grain bill.

#6 pods8

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 12:51 PM

Why is it that lager recipes use so much Pilsner malt? I mean...why not regular old 2- row pale malt like Mrris Otter and such. /dumb question

Around my parts Marris isn't a "regualr old 2 row" its priced like pilsner. Great Western is the most affordable 2row around here.

#7 ColdAssHonky

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 12:54 PM

I just ordered a 55lbs sack of Great Western Superior Pilsen ($37) for use in a couple Alts and maybe a Pale Ale or IPA. Anyone have experience with that brand? I got it cause it was cheap, just like me.

Edited by MyBeerPants, 02 April 2009 - 12:54 PM.


#8 BFB

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 12:54 PM

Thanks for the replies.....they all make sense.

Around my parts Marris isn't a "regualr old 2 row" its priced like pilsner. Great Western is the most affordable 2row around here.

I don't know what you pay...but I pay mid $50s for a bag of either Muntons or Fawcett Marris Otter. Heck, Briess 2- row made right down the road is still touching on $50 a bag.

#9 Humperdink

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 12:57 PM

Thanks for the replies.....they all make sense.I don't know what you pay...but I pay mid $50s for a bag of either Muntons or Fawcett Marris Otter. Heck, Briess 2- row made right down the road is still touching on $50 a bag.

Lucky you! I get charged a premium here for MO. That's why I never use it. Cost about 75 to 80 bucks a sack. frickin highway robbery I tell ya. Good stuff, but just like the pilsner, I can't justify the added expense and since the beer is for me, I dont' have to worry about guidelines. As long as it tastes good to me it IS a winner.

#10 BFB

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 01:02 PM

There are probably a number different reasons. One is that a lot of lagers are very pale and you need the palest malt you can find. Another is that lagers usually don't have a huge malt flavor. And I think some of it has to do with tradition -- it's what they use because it's what they've always used.It's not a dumb question by the way.

That's exactly why I use Pilsner in my Blondes...just to make it paler. Thx,BFB

#11 pods8

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 01:06 PM

Thanks for the replies.....they all make sense.I don't know what you pay...but I pay mid $50s for a bag of either Muntons or Fawcett Marris Otter. Heck, Briess 2- row made right down the road is still touching on $50 a bag.

Great western is around $50 I believe (used to be $35 a few years ago). Marris will set you back $80-90.

#12 Big Nake

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 01:20 PM

That's exactly why I use Pilsner in my Blondes...just to make it paler. Thx,BFB

You can still make some damn pale beer with just American 2-row and some wheat or Vienna thrown in. I think I see most 2-row at 2° and some of the pilsners at 1.5° or something. I've got a few ultra-pale beers that had American 2-row as the base malt. Never bought a full sack but $37 for Great Western sounds like a sweet deal. Cheers.

#13 Lagerdemain

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 01:22 PM

I use continental pilsner malt because it works for me. It's smoother, has less protein than domestic malts, and I like the flavor better.

#14 ncbeerbrewer

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 01:55 PM

I am going to make a switch this weekend and brew up an IPA with Pilsner Malt instead of 2 Row. I don't care to drop $50 here for a bag of Breiss just yet and sadly my bag of Great Western I got from NCM just ran out. Great Western is my fav 2 Row and I wish I could get it here locally as well. I figure at 75 IBU and about 1.060 I sure won't tell a difference between Pilsner and 2 Row.

#15 Jimmy James

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 04:53 PM

The pilsner has a distinct character as I think it is kilned differently, maybe someone else can chime in and validate that...

I can validate that (distinct flavor, not sure about the why though), as can my wife. She hates the flavor of pilsener malt and pretty much stays away from any lager that features it since usually the yeast and hop character in those brews is subtle and doesn't cover up the pilsener flavor. On the other hand I love the flavor of pilsener malt. I can't describe it, but you'll know it if you brew a Munich Helles or something that really accentuates the malt and uses a neutral lager/bock yeast and low IBU. I don't think it's as noticeable in Belgian ales where it's also used but there's a lot more yeast character to dominate the overall profile. Maybe someone here can take a stab at describing the pilsener malt flavor?

#16 ANUSTART

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 05:45 PM

That's pretty much what I do also ken, especially when the malt isn't the shining star. It's a lot cheaper too! $75 for a sack of weyermann pilsner malt compared to 44 for Rahr 2- row of the same lovibond. Generally for german lagers I'll mix the pilsner and Am. 2-row. The pilsner has a distinct character as I think it is kilned differently, maybe someone else can chime in and validate that... but not distinct enough for me to justify the added cost of a large portion of the grain bill.

Yikes! :covreyes: You should try to find someone in your area to get in on a group buy. $75 is damn near "by the batch" prices.

#17 BrewerGeorge

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 10:37 PM

Pilsner just tastes different. However, I almost always use regular two-row for everything that's not 90% or more base malt - mostly for economy. Like Jimmy James says, though, if you're making a Helles, it WILL taste different with American 2-row as opposed to German pilsner. I think American lagers are MORE to style with 2-row instead of pilsner, actually, because the pilsner taste is distracting from the nothingness that should be American lager.

#18 Humperdink

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 07:48 AM

Yikes! :covreyes: You should try to find someone in your area to get in on a group buy. $75 is damn near "by the batch" prices.

It's no joke man, The LHBS has a pretty hefty markup I think. But then again if you look at online suppliers like B3 or NB, It's only like ten bucks less... and then you have to ship it. Meh, I just cut it with some two row and call it good, I like it.

#19 Zulu

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 08:46 AM

The taste also comes from the type of Barley used.Maris Otter is a type of Barley as an example, as is Golden Promise.The Germans plant different Barley than the Americans , not sure of the exact varieties used , but Pilsner Malt comes from a 2 Row Barley plant. Almost all 6 Row in Europe is used as feed.Most 6 row used for malting comes from a Variety called Larker as it produces plump kernels, and while the USA and Canada grow both 2 and 6 row , Mexico only grows 6 Row.

#20 Zulu

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 08:49 AM

It's no joke man, The LHBS has a pretty hefty markup I think. But then again if you look at online suppliers like B3 or NB, It's only like ten bucks less... and then you have to ship it. Meh, I just cut it with some two row and call it good, I like it.

A pallet is 40-42 sacks, and with shipping comes in around $45 max for almost all varieties , our brew club does a group buy fall and spring, we have traditionally offered it to the LHBS , but he turns us down as too much work for him.


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