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FWH and remove before boil


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#1 JimInNJ

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 11:24 AM

First Wort Hopping normally involves adding some hops to the kettle at about the time the bottom is first covered with wort, letting them steep in the kettle as the sparge progresses, and leaving them in for the duration of the boil. The stated goal being enhanced hop flavor and aroma with a very smooth bitterness. IBU contribution is said to be comparable to a twenty minute addition, although there is some debate on this detail.I am wondering if anyone has experimented with removing the FWH hops before beginning the boil. Would this contribute the same amount of flavor? Would it contribute less bitterness?Thoughts? Experiences?- Jim

#2 Mindblock

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 11:27 AM

Interesting question.....I have wondered the same thing, as well as the impact of a 60 minute versus a 90 minute boil on the apparent bitterness from the FWH addition.

#3 djinkc

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 11:39 AM

Never tried it, whenever possible I use loose whole hops so - pretty much impossible to remove. I would think it would be a mistake to take them out though. I've done a lot of 90 min boils with FWH - JMO but I don't think that extra 30 minutes makes much of a difference.

#4 pods8

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 12:03 PM

What would be to goal of taking them out? Or are you in total hypothetical world here? I suspect whatever is going on that locks the compounds in the 20min flavor have done their deed and the hops are spent.

#5 Brownbeard

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 12:29 PM

What would be to goal of taking them out? Or are you in total hypothetical world here? I suspect whatever is going on that locks the compounds in the 20min flavor have done their deed and the hops are spent.

I use hop straining bags in my brews. With some IPA's (where I have several hop additions) the kettle can get kind of crowded with hop bags.

#6 pods8

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 12:52 PM

I use hop straining bags in my brews. With some IPA's (where I have several hop additions) the kettle can get kind of crowded with hop bags.

Set them free! They want to swim! :devil: I see, I hadn't thought of that since I just toss them in. Give it a whirl and report back.

#7 ncbeerbrewer

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 02:04 PM

This is the first year that I have used Whole hops and tossed them in during the boil as well. I love them. I prefer pellets but being able to seperate them from the beer. Much easier than pellets if you ask me. I think though, why even FWH if you are going to remove them. I don't think the same effect would be reached by doing that, if it was it would be a suggestion or some other acronymn for something else too.

#8 Genesee Ted

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 02:09 PM

I read a scientific analysis of the FWH process a few years ago. I believe that the study was done in Germany IIRC. Apparently something happens where the hop character is "set" before the boil and the hop oils never isomerize. That is why you get that "fresh" hop character from the process.For that reason, I would not take the hops out to cut down on bittering.

#9 zymot

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 02:16 PM

Removing hops from wort is against my religion.Never take hops out of your wort.zymot

#10 JimInNJ

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 02:34 PM

My system is a little strange, but it works for me. I do three gallon all grain batches on the stove-top. I mash in my kettle, so direct heat step mashes are a snap. But I have to collect my runnings in a pail and transfer them back after I clean out the spent grain.An offshoot of this is that most of the FWH hops remain in the pail and I can choose if I want to dump them into the kettle. Pondering this choice got me wondering if all of the magical goodness of FWHing is already in the wort at this point. If so, it would seem that boiling the "spent" hops might only add vegetal flavors or harsh bitterness.I could do a batch each way and organize triangle tastings. But it is so much easier to just ask on a web forum. Plus, this refugee camp needs something to talk about.- Jim

#11 chuck_d

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 10:28 PM

Interesting question.....I have wondered the same thing, as well as the impact of a 60 minute versus a 90 minute boil on the apparent bitterness from the FWH addition.

The impact on utilization from 60 to 90 minutes is small, about 10% maybe a little less actually. I haven't experimented like this yet, but my guess is that you'd just end up with the corresponding increase of a couple IBU while the flavor impact remains basically the same, since those compounds are supposed to be the result of reactions prior to the boiling begins and yet stable enough to last through the boil.

#12 Alpha Male

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 07:22 AM

I read a scientific analysis of the FWH process a few years ago. I believe that the study was done in Germany IIRC. Apparently something happens where the hop character is "set" before the boil and the hop oils never isomerize. That is why you get that "fresh" hop character from the process.For that reason, I would not take the hops out to cut down on bittering.

I believe that FWH ends up being about the same as a 30 minute addition. Jeff

#13 dagomike

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 07:33 PM

I read a scientific analysis of the FWH process a few years ago. I believe that the study was done in Germany IIRC. Apparently something happens where the hop character is "set" before the boil and the hop oils never isomerize. That is why you get that "fresh" hop character from the process.

I don't think that's correct. I think the IBUs are there, but the impression of bitterness may be different.

Pondering this choice got me wondering if all of the magical goodness of FWHing is already in the wort at this point. If so, it would seem that boiling the "spent" hops might only add vegetal flavors or harsh bitterness.

That makes sense, but it's kind of reverse hop bursting. If this is your goal, I'd give hop bursting a try instead.

#14 cavman

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 08:54 PM

I use hop straining bags in my brews. With some IPA's (where I have several hop additions) the kettle can get kind of crowded with hop bags.

Hop bags can hold lots of hopsPosted Imagejust saying...


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