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Bunch-o older honey/agave need to finally make something


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#1 pods8

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 12:27 PM

Alright time to blow the dust off some stuff, I've got some fermentables that need ferment'n. I've got a bucket of honey (probably 2/3 full) and agave amber that I have long pushed to the side. Given these have some age on them I'm thinking Metheglin type stuff is in order. I'll have to dust off my notes but I've got one that I made with ginger/clove/allspice which I'd like to do again. I believe there was a cinnamon/vanilla recipe that caught my attention in the past as well. If just using the honey straight up I can likely do about 3 4-5gal batches (if I'm recalling qty right, need to review the calculators/my notes since its been a while). But I also have that agave to work with and may need some honey to blend.I seem to recall some threads in the past talking about agave not fully fermenting out well? (Oddly I can't get any hits in the mead forum with agave in the search). Anyone recall anything or have some use ideas? Got lots to work with but again its aged so keep that in mind.

#2 armagh

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 01:02 PM

There was an agave group buy back in the green board days organized by ScottS. I think I ended up with 2-3 gallons of the stuff. The best use I found for it was blended with honey to make a sweet, still mead. Backsweetened with agave and used just a pinch of acid at bottling and after aging, it was outstanding. I actually had some one ask if it was a Sauterne. I can look for the proportions tonight if you're interested.ETA: Agave's characteristics in terms of sugar content, acidity, etc., are so close to honey that you can count it as such in spreadsheet calculators.

Edited by armagh, 07 November 2012 - 01:03 PM.


#3 pods8

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 01:42 PM

There was an agave group buy back in the green board days organized by ScottS. I think I ended up with 2-3 gallons of the stuff. The best use I found for it was blended with honey to make a sweet, still mead. Backsweetened with agave and used just a pinch of acid at bottling and after aging, it was outstanding. I actually had some one ask if it was a Sauterne. I can look for the proportions tonight if you're interested.ETA: Agave's characteristics in terms of sugar content, acidity, etc., are so close to honey that you can count it as such in spreadsheet calculators.

Where do you think my dusty bucket of agave came from? :1zhelp: :blush: At least the honey I have isn't THAT old... So did you ever try it straight up?

#4 armagh

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 02:12 PM

Damn, and it hasn't crystalized? Yes, I did try it straight up. Pretty thin and unremarkable. Think I blended with Tupelo to give it some body.

#5 pods8

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 02:22 PM

Its still sealed up, no idea off hand. I'm quite sure I'll have some crystallization to deal with but that's what warm water/lots of stirring is for to dissolve it. Might as well try to reclaim and do something rather than nothing with it...

#6 armagh

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 05:00 PM

12 lbs honey alfalfa honey1/2 gallon agave (should be apx 5 lbs - I believe the weight does not correspond exactly with honey)Yeast was D10 (from 3B)SYN standard protocol per LalvinOG 1.130 (may be a scrivener's error, that seems high)@ 1.010 added mix of 16 oz. agave mixed with 16 oz water.Notes show a final gravity of 1.016.

#7 pods8

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 03:41 PM

Well the agave was perfectly fine (no crystalls) and I still have half a bucket left (I ran out of fermenters). The honey was 1/2 crystallized and took a bunch of effort to get it out and subsequently disolve but hey might as well try and ferment it. Got four 5-6gal batches going.#1 all honey brix 26 with 71B.#2 all agave brix 28 with 71B#3 all honey brix 28.5 with D47#4 probably about half and half agave/honey brix 26 with 71BJust hit them with the second nutrient addition. I was basically shooting for the 26-28brix ballpark but didn't get super anal over a specific number. I'll fermnent them out and back sweeten as desired once the yeast is ka-put.

#8 pods8

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 09:07 AM

So these are basically done with primary now and racked. Batch #3 is down to 1.030 which is still a tad sweet so for shits and giggles I racked it onto the dregs of a 71B batch to see if there was any chance to get at tiny bit more fermentation going (I'm doubtful but its not going to hurt anything to see). Assuming nothing progresses I was thinking I'd blend batch #1 and #3, #1 I was going to back sweeten anyways.From there between #1 and #3 I was going to do the redstone vanilla Cinnamon clone recipe that BYO did for part and then a ginger/cinnamon/clove/allspice one that I've done before, can't recall the exact proportions off hand to post right now.#2 and # 4 I was thinking of splitting in half and oaking half of each, then comparing. If the oaked is better it may all end up that route, we'll see how it all tastes with some age on it.Anyone have any idea of oak cube rates for light flavored stuff like mead/agave? I'd like a lighter dose rate to allow the cubes to stay in there a bit rather than just getting that massive tannin dump off the get go. I'd probably use medium french oak as I've used that in the past. Also I've seen mention of boiling the cubes for a while, does that knock down that initial tannin dump? I've in the past just done a whiskey soak but was curious what experiences anyone had with boiling.Depending on the oaking in batches #2 and #4 I may hit #1 and #3 with some light oak as well for nuance, we'll just have to see how it all goes.

Edited by pods8, 17 December 2012 - 09:07 AM.


#9 MtnBrewer

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 09:43 AM

I'd go for a small amount of oak for a longer period of time. Start with 1 or 2 oz. and check after a month or so and every couple of weeks after that.The manufacturer recommends against boiling them. What I do is put them in a strainer and rinse to get rid of the dust. Then I pour some StarSan over the cubes, shake them to expose different surfaces, pour more StarSan, shake, pour, etc.

#10 pods8

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 01:21 PM

K, 1oz/5gal rate sounds like a decent starting point (can always add more). Any reason you're using starsan rather than a booze soak?

#11 MtnBrewer

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 01:32 PM

K, 1oz/5gal rate sounds like a decent starting point (can always add more). Any reason you're using starsan rather than a booze soak?

I don't want the booze in my beer/mead.

#12 pods8

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 01:43 PM

Boiler maker!

#13 porter

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 06:00 PM

Anyone ever do any more experimenting with agave nectar? I was at Costco today and was going to pick up some honey for a cyser, but they didn't have it in stock. On a whim, I grabbed some agave nectar (72 oz.). I wonder how this would be in cider? I'd never had it before and I'd put the taste as kinda a blend of honey and molasses. Could be interesting.

#14 pods8

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 09:02 AM

Anyone ever do any more experimenting with agave nectar? I was at Costco today and was going to pick up some honey for a cyser, but they didn't have it in stock. On a whim, I grabbed some agave nectar (72 oz.). I wonder how this would be in cider? I'd never had it before and I'd put the taste as kinda a blend of honey and molasses. Could be interesting.

The two batches above are all I've done so far, I still have more agave left though. Does CO have a prickly pear harvest? It might be interesting to use the agave in that recipe...The agave nectar fermented does have a hint of tequilla wine to it, I figure oaking it might be interesting. With holidays and stuff I'm just getting back to this. My local place only had 1lb oak cube bags which I don't need to be dropping $40 on. Looks like there is a place up in longmont that says they carry 3oz packs I'll go check out but they may only have american oak cubes, if so I'll likely just go with them.

#15 porter

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 11:55 AM

The two batches above are all I've done so far, I still have more agave left though. Does CO have a prickly pear harvest? It might be interesting to use the agave in that recipe...The agave nectar fermented does have a hint of tequilla wine to it, I figure oaking it might be interesting. With holidays and stuff I'm just getting back to this. My local place only had 1lb oak cube bags which I don't need to be dropping $40 on. Looks like there is a place up in longmont that says they carry 3oz packs I'll go check out but they may only have american oak cubes, if so I'll likely just go with them.

Oak could be interesting, I might consider that depending on how this turns out.My agave cider has been going for about two weeks now. Haven't checked in on the gravity yet, but it's still chugging away every five seconds or so. It's notably cloudy, even (especially) compared to the cyser I started 5 days later. Not sure what's going on there. I did 72 oz of the agave nectar with 4 gallons of this: https://www.freshapp...e&id=1&Itemid=9..and also a half gallon of the cherry/apple juice, maybe to add a slight cherry note. The "cyser" is almost wholly with the pear/apple juice.I've used their cold pressed cider before, but it's out of season now (missed the window, stupidly), and the apple juice is nearly as good. Interestingly, I see they make hard cider now, which I hadn't noted before. Haven't yet seen it in any liquor stores, though.

Edited by porter, 06 February 2013 - 11:56 AM.



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