19 replies to this topic

[DaBearSox]

I had an Outlaw IPA at Two Brothers a few months ago and I am not looking for an exact clone but more of a nice piney/resinous taste when going down. I really enjoyed it on this and was looking for the best way to achieve it. From a little research i found that they use Chinook, Palisades and Ahtanum..I am guessing the pine comes from the chinook. Yesterday I bought a pound each of Chinook, Amarillo, and Cascade so looks like this is what I will be using for my IPA..looking for a nice citrus flavor up front then a nice piney going down... Any advice on the method to get that resinous aftertaste?

[passlaku]

In that Zymurgy article Vinnie states that he adds Simcoe for its piney qualities. I also heard on the BN NHC wrap up show that their IPA guy, Nate, noticed that his lower scores in competitions came from beers where he neglected to put Simcoe in the hop bill. He said he tweaked one recipe by adding simcoe (i forget where in the process) and he did much better in the competition. I guess judges are now looking for resinous pine quality in IPAs that is derived from Simcoe, and that the citrus is not enough to carry over "award winning" IPAs.Edit: Here is how Vinnie Cilurzo breaks down the different flavors of various hops.Amarillo - apricot/peachesCentenial - fruityChinook - pepperyCTZ - dank, onion, garlic, spiceSimcoe - pine

[DaBearSox]

hmm that's interesting...especially with Basser's hate of Simcoe and the talk of cat pee...

[zymot]

I made an APA with Simcoe at 60 minutes. My conclusion: Simcoe = Pinesol.If piney is what you are looking for, Simcoe should be part of you hop schedule.zymot

[MtnBrewer]

Edit: Here is how Vinnie Cilurzo breaks down the different flavors of various hops.Amarillo - apricot/peachesCentenial - fruityChinook - pepperyCTZ - dank, onion, garlic, spiceSimcoe - pine

I saw that too in the Pliny article. I was a little thrown off by the Chinook description. I haven't used that much of it but I always thought it was piney too. It seems like Simcoe on steroids HGH to me. Another variety that has that onion/garlic flavor is Summit.

[DaBearSox]

I saw that too in the Pliny article. I was a little thrown off by the Chinook description. I haven't used that much of it but I always thought it was piney too. It seems like Simcoe on steroids HGH to me. Another variety that has that onion/garlic flavor is Summit.

I forgot about that article i read it a few weeks ago....all the stuff i have seen on the internet the majority say that chinook have a piney flavor...

[Big Nake]

I would say that Chinook has a piney/resinous/coarse flavor, to be sure. I would also describe Simcoe as "piney" and Amarillo as "grapefruity". At one of the local brewpubs, they had something called Hop Shock or something like that and it was very similar to what you describe... piney, coarse, etc. My tongue felt like it had been rubbed with sandpaper when I was done with it. The beertender told me, "Lots of Chinook in that one!" and I was like, "DUH!" One of the local homebrewers here uses all Amarillo in some sort of Gumball Head clone and everyone who has had it agrees... big grapefruit flavor. Cheers.

[MtnBrewer]

I would say that Chinook has a piney/resinous/coarse flavor, to be sure. I would also describe Simcoe as "piney" and Amarillo as "grapefruity". At one of the local brewpubs, they had something called Hop Shock or something like that and it was very similar to what you describe... piney, coarse, etc. My tongue felt like it had been rubbed with sandpaper when I was done with it. The beertender told me, "Lots of Chinook in that one!" and I was like, "DUH!" One of the local homebrewers here uses all Amarillo in some sort of Gumball Head clone and everyone who has had it agrees... big grapefruit flavor. Cheers.

The citrus I get from Amarillo is more tangerine than grapefruit.

[DubbelEntendre]

The citrus I get from Amarillo is more tangerine than grapefruit.

I've never had a straight Amarillo Hopped beer, but I think in combination with Cascade it comes out more grapefruit than tangerine. I'd be interested to try to single hop a beer just with 'Rillo and see how this plays out./threadjack

[ChicagoWaterGuy]

I get mango from Amarillo in Gumballhead. I really enjoy that beer. Brooklyn/Schnieder makes a wheat with Hallertuaer Safir hops that is pure tangerine. Very nice.

[Pseudolus]

I think of Simcoe as grapefruit (rind, not flesh) and Amarillo as tangerine. I've got something gumballheadish nearly ready to keg. The sample of that that I've tasted so far has tons of that tangerine flavor but also something from the pine family. I guess that if you use a LOT of Amarillo (and I used something like 10 oz in a 6G batch) some of that pine starts to show up as well.

[Pseudolus]

I get mango from Amarillo in Gumballhead.

Interesting. Because mango, to me, has more than a little pine sap to it. I never really thought of it as a comparator for a hop flavor. Hmm.

[DaBearSox]

all these comments are leading me to believe imagonna have a nice tasty IPA on my hands

[Big Nake]

all these comments are leading me to believe imagonna have a nice tasty IPA on my hands

I agree. You'll just have to play with the hops and see what they tell you. Various hops give you citrus, some give you pine and some give you a combination. It may have to do with how fresh the hops are and when they're used in the boil that gives you grapefruit, tangerine, etc. I've used Styrian Golding and some other hops like Tradition, Mittelfruh and Hersbrucker and smelled lemon... especially when I'm chilling. Very strange. Keep us posted on how the beer comes out. Cheers!

[ncbeerbrewer]

I have used Simcoe in an IPA in addition to using Amarillo. I bittered then did a combination of Simcoe and Amarillo and to me the Amarillo was more present than the Simcoe as I got a lot of citrus flavor instead of any pine. I am brewing this weekend a Pale Ale and plan to use Simcoe and Willamette. I wanna see if the Simcoe will come forward more this go around. Amarillo has become my IPA/PA flavor and aroma hop in the last few months. I have plenty of Cascade but have really enjoyed what Amarillo contributes. Beersox I think you will have a tasty IPA for sure.

[ncbeerbrewer]

I am asking this to get a brewer's perspective instead of reading a descrition but how would you describe the flavor of Willamette? I have not brewed with it in a long while and I got a lb of it from HopsDirect that I am ready to bust open.

[MtnBrewer]

Floral with a little grassiness. Very good variety in my opinion.

[Slainte]

Yeah Wilmy is the dank shit. Kinda earthy.Side note. Anyone use French Strisselspalt? I've got some I need to use. Never tried it before.

[ncbeerbrewer]

Floral with a little grassiness. Very good variety in my opinion.

Thanks Mtn. Well my Pale Ale this weekend will be Simcoe/Wilamette for a FWH addition and all the Flavor/Aromas as well. Piney from Simcoe and Grassy/floral from Will. It should be an interesting combination then. I am going for something that is not Amarillo as I have used often lately and not ready to get back to the Cascade yet either. As long as it does not taste like a Lawn I should be alright.

[Big Nake]

Yes, I would describe Williamette as Earthy & grassy. I believe it's derived from an English variety so the Earthiness is pronounced. Very nice hop though... excellent flavor & aroma.I did use French Strisselspalt in something years ago but I forget what it was... possibly a Belgian Wit. They seemed weak & musty to me... perfect for a Belgian beer of almost any kind and if you kept them for a few years, you could use them in a Lambic! Very low AA%, IIRC... I think I just saw some at my LHBS and they were 1.9%. Good luck.