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entitlement reform, Chris Christie, the retirement age, etc.

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#21 orudis

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 08:48 AM

First of all, SS isn't an "entitlement," that's right wing demagoguery. Its earned. Second, SS is pretty easily fixable through modest changes like raising taxes and cutting benefits in ways that don't hurt people of modest means and with lots of notice to prepare. Third, the predicted SS shortfall is almost meaningless compared to the very real problem of our out of control health care costs.
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#22 toonces

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 08:49 AM

I can hear the "He's paid in all his life, now he's taking HIS money out" argument thundering up :)

like rami pointed out, fleming v. nestor would likely indicate that it's NOT his money.
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#23 TonyBrown

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 08:51 AM

I can hear the "He's paid in all his life, now he's taking HIS money out" argument thundering up :)

sure, use it when he actually RETIRES then. i got no problem with that.
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#24 Enid Puceflange

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 08:59 AM

First of all, SS isn't an "entitlement," that's right wing demagoguery. Its earned. Second, SS is pretty easily fixable through modest changes like raising taxes and cutting benefits in ways that don't hurt people of modest means and with lots of notice to prepare. Third, the predicted SS shortfall is almost meaningless compared to the very real problem of our out of control health care costs.

All of this.
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#25 davelew

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 09:03 AM

Don't forget that price inflation has decades of figures demonstrating how it is cooked as well - see "Hedonistic pricing" for an example :stabby: It wouldn't just be Grandma out there with the pitchforks and tar/feathers

Hedonistic pricing has an undeservedly bad reputation, imho. There are rigorous ways to calculate it, they just happen to require grad school level mathematics so the average commentator thinks the hedonistic numbers are just made up. Also, ignoring hedonistic effect is guaranteed to be wrong-- and to get worse as IT and electronics become a larger part of our economy.
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#26 ScottS

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 09:40 AM

First of all, SS isn't an "entitlement," that's right wing demagoguery. Its earned.

What is an entitlement?

#27 thedisappearer

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 09:58 AM

What is an entitlement?

I always thought it was something you were "entitled" to, from birth or citizenship or whatever, but not sometrhing you "earned".
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#28 TonyBrown

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 09:59 AM

I always thought it was something you were "entitled" to, from birth or citizenship or whatever, but not sometrhing you "earned".

i'm entitled to $5mil. :P
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#29 Stains_not_here_man

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 10:20 AM

I always thought it was something you were "entitled" to, from birth or citizenship or whatever, but not sometrhing you "earned".

This is how I always understood it too.Although, semantically, I agree that it is a funny way to put it -- what else I am I "entitled" to, if not that which I have earned? :)
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#30 thedisappearer

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 10:21 AM

what else I am I "entitled" to, if not that which I have earned? :)

A free, public education?
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#31 japh

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 10:29 AM

What is an entitlement?

Definition of ENTITLEMENT1a: the state or condition of being entitled : right b: a right to benefits specified especially by law or contract2: a government program providing benefits to members of a specified group; also : funds supporting or distributed by such a program3: belief that one is deserving of or entitled to certain privileges

Yep, sounds like SS is an Entitlement.
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#32 TonyBrown

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 10:52 AM

A free, public education?

free is a disingenuous term for that as well since we all 'pay' for it thru various taxes and etc. :P
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#33 orudis

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 11:04 AM

Oh its unquestionably an entitlement in the formal sense. And I would be in favor of liberals reclaiming the word, but as it stands professional demagogues like Frank Luntz have worked very hard (and very successfully) to imbue "entitlement" with a meaning akin to being entitled to something undeserved, or unearned, like welfare. SS, medicare, unemployment benefits are, for almost everyone who receives them, all earned through payroll taxes/employer contributions. Next? :)eta: stain, you got a link to the article you're talking about? Lets see if we can't help the conservatives understand how the word "entitlement" is used by demagogues.
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#34 thedisappearer

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 11:26 AM

free is a disingenuous term for that as well since we all 'pay' for it thru various taxes and etc. :P

No, it's perfectly apt for what Stain and I were discussing. But hey, if *you* were paying property taxes while in the first grade, more power to you.
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#35 TonyBrown

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 11:29 AM

No, it's perfectly apt for what Stain and I were discussing. But hey, if *you* were paying property taxes while in the first grade, more power to you.

in that respect, prior to "free" public schooling, if your parents paid for your education back when toonces was in school it was still free, right??eta - I don't think "free" school is a bad thing, I think it is a net positive for society, though there's a shitload of work that needs to be done there now.
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#36 thedisappearer

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 11:32 AM

in that respect, prior to "free" public schooling, if your parents paid for your education back when toonces was in school it was still free, right??

WTF are you even talking about at this point?
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