19 replies to this topic

[OhioMurb]

Ready for the impossible-to-answer question of the week?I've been on a streak where all my beers have this....flabby...taste to them. Just not bright, not crisp, kind of mushy.I thought it was fermentation, but pitch rates, attenuation and final gravities are all in a comparable range with my other beers. They've been an Oatmeal Stout, Vienna Lager and an Old Ale. Hard to describe a flavor, but does "flabby" sound like a familiar taste? I know it's impossible to diagnose, but does this sound familiar to anyone??

[Howie]

AG beers?When you start using words like bright and crisp, water would be my first guess.

[Big Nake]

I've heard "flabby" used as a descriptor before and always wondered what it meant. A quick Google of "flabby homebrew" brought up a number of results regarding wine & cider but very little on beer. One result has a guy going to a brewpub in Michigan where he says the Pilsner, the Helles and the Kolsch were all described as "flabby".

[positiveContact]

AG beers?When you start using words like bright and crisp, water would be my first guess.

yeup. more sulfates!

[Big Nake]

yeup. more sulfates!

But I assume that OhioMurb's water has been consistent and that he would know his water. Also, you wouldn't want more sulfates in something like a Helles, Kolsch or Pilsner so if you had flabby examples of those styles, how would you fix it? Small amounts of sulfates?

[Howie]

But I assume that OhioMurb's water has been consistent and that he would know his water.

Perhaps the municipality changed something about the water?Other options may be too much crystal in the recipe, or underattenuation?

[positiveContact]

But I assume that OhioMurb's water has been consistent and that he would know his water. Also, you wouldn't want more sulfates in something like a Helles, Kolsch or Pilsner so if you had flabby examples of those styles, how would you fix it? Small amounts of sulfates?

everyone says no to sulfates in a lot of those beers but it makes a really nice o'fest in my opinion. not sure on the specific examples you stated though. I guess it depends on what flabby means. if it means kind of muddy I'd probably look into the fermentation (yeast health, temperature, O2 in wort, etc.).

[Big Nake]

Yeah, like everything else... lots of variables here. I mentioned this in a recent thread where there are so many places where problems can come up and "flabbyness" seems to be vague enough that the problem could lurk almost anywhere. Crush, freshness of grains or hops, water, mash technique, mash and/or sparge pH, oxygenation, yeast health or pitching temps and/or rates, primary fermentation temperature, oxidation and the list goes on.

[pete maz]

Does your water supply change at all when the weather gets colder? Maybe it's my imagination, but I think mine does. Maybe the treatment is different.

[Mya]

Does your water supply change at all when the weather gets colder? Maybe it's my imagination, but I think mine does. Maybe the treatment is different.

around here the chlorine level is significantly lower in cold weather, but our water is underground aquifer not reservoir

[JMcG]

Surface water sources change a lot with seasons and rainfall out here in the plains, esp sodium levels. Probably not as much of a problem if your water source is a large freshwater lake (eg Michigan), aquifer or near mountain sources.

[Mya]

I've heard "flabby" used as a descriptor before and always wondered what it meant. A quick Google of "flabby homebrew" brought up a number of results regarding wine & cider but very little on beer. One result has a guy going to a brewpub in Michigan where he says the Pilsner, the Helles and the Kolsch were all described as "flabby".

that's dagomike's blog, he's a member here

[Mya]

what does "flabby" describe OhoiMurb? hop profile? sulfurous? a smell?

[cavman]

what does "flabby" describe OhoiMurb? hop profile? sulfurous? a smell?

His beergut?

[Big Nake]

that's dagomike's blog, he's a member here

Oh yeah, I see that the website has "flaminio" in the name... didn't notice that until you mentioned it. Hey, DagoMike, get in here and tell us what "flabby" means. And stop pointing at my beer gut.

[MtnBrewer]

I tend to associate "flabby" with underattenuated. Sweetness without a balancing characteristic such as acidity or bitterness. Since the beers he mentioned are not particularly bitter, that leads me to believe that maybe they didn't attenuate well. Ohio, did you measure FG of these beers?

[OhioMurb]

I tend to associate "flabby" with underattenuated. Sweetness without a balancing characteristic such as acidity or bitterness. Since the beers he mentioned are not particularly bitter, that leads me to believe that maybe they didn't attenuate well. Ohio, did you measure FG of these beers?

This is a good way to describe it. Attenuation was my first guess. Att Rates are all around 70-80% and final gravities were around 1.010 - 1.020.Flabby...hmmm...it's definitly a flavor...just kind of an "eh" in the aftertaste. Tastes...mushy? not a crisp snap of flavor (malt or hops). Almost like when you brew something with WAY too many grains and they all compete and nothing really stands out. But these brews were all pretty straight forward with 2-3 grains in the bill.Maybe they're attenuating appropriately, but they're not dry enough. I might be starting too big and might lose that mush flavor if my FGs are under 1.010.Acidity is interesting...I've never bothered with water, but would a screw pH leave me without that acid snap?

[MtnBrewer]

Acidity is interesting...I've never bothered with water, but would a screw pH leave me without that acid snap?

It could definitely do that.

[Big Nake]

It could definitely do that.

Yeah, I think so big time. I am learning that pH is a huge piece of the way that the final beer leaves its impression on you. I have had a number of beers where I KNOW the pH was not correct and the resulting beer was not to my liking. The term "flabby" did not enter my vocabulary at the moment I tasted those beers but if that is what flabby is, I want no part of flabby. This might also explain the description on DagoMike's blog about the beers he tasted... they were all pale-colored beers (kolsch, pilsner, helles) and getting the pH correct on pale beers can be quite tricky especially with Michigan water!

[No Party JKor]

My first guess was water.Maybe some old/stale hops? Did you change you're 'batch of hops around the time it started?