20 replies to this topic

[positiveContact]

I'm making a vienna lager tonight and cavman suggested I do a step mash. After looking at the amount of grain and water to pull it off it seems pretty easy. my question is, what does it get me? how will it affect the final product? what variables can I adjust about a step mash to change the result?in this example cavman suggested 148F for 45 min followed by a step up to 160-162F. If I mash a little thick (1.25qt/lb) I can pretty easy infuse with about 2 gallons of boiling water and get my temps up. what will this do? what's the theory? I'm pretty much in the dark here.

[cavman]

It improves the overall body and mouthfeel, it also aids in head retention.

[cavman]

Here is some more info https://braukaiser.c...nfusion_Mashing

[positiveContact]

so is what you were suggesting really a step mash? seems liks it's just saccrification and a mash out. am I wrong there?

[Genesee Ted]

1.25 qt/lb is thick? I do it with pretty much every brew because of space restrictions in my MT. I am not sure if it qualifies directly, I made it up to suit my needs. For example, I will mash in at 148, let it rest half an hour. Pull off 2 gal of liqour and bring that to a boil, add it back. This will raise it somewhere in the mid 150s. Rest 10 minutes, pull off another 2 gal, boil, repeat. It takes another time or two to get it to 172. Once there, vorlauf, run off, sparge. I don't really fly sparge, but I don't batch sparge either. I just keep the bed floating and add in a few qts of sparge water at a time while I run off.

[positiveContact]

1.25 qt/lb is thick? I do it with pretty much every brew because of space restrictions in my MT. I am not sure if it qualifies directly, I made it up to suit my needs. For example, I will mash in at 148, let it rest half an hour. Pull off 2 gal of liqour and bring that to a boil, add it back. This will raise it somewhere in the mid 150s. Rest 10 minutes, pull off another 2 gal, boil, repeat. It takes another time or two to get it to 172. Once there, vorlauf, run off, sparge. I don't really fly sparge, but I don't batch sparge either. I just keep the bed floating and add in a few qts of sparge water at a time while I run off.

yeah - not really thick but slightly thicker than what I normally do these days.

[positiveContact]

It improves the overall body and mouthfeel, it also aids in head retention.

so in the case of my vienna lager - what was your thought process behind suggesting 148F for 45 min followed by 160F? was it to keep the beer from getting too thin and dry? did you mean to say I should do a protein rest first?

[positiveContact]

also - in a general sense - how do you guys handle your water adjustment with infusion step mashing? do you calculate based on the water and grain present during the saccrification step? do you put all of the salts in to begin with or add them in during the saccrification step?

[cavman]

so in the case of my vienna lager - what was your thought process behind suggesting 148F for 45 min followed by 160F? was it to keep the beer from getting too thin and dry? did you mean to say I should do a protein rest first?

The Vienna and Munich malts will add a nice maltiness, this technique allows you to dry it out without it tasting to dry. I think it helps show off the maltiness in this type of beer.

[positiveContact]

The Vienna and Munich malts will add a nice maltiness, this technique allows you to dry it out without it tasting to dry. I think it helps show off the maltiness in this type of beer.

what's happening that allows this to happen? for instance - if I just did the infusion at 148F for 60 min and then mashed it out, how would this differ from 45 min then essentially a mash out?

[cavman]

what's happening that allows this to happen? for instance - if I just did the infusion at 148F for 60 min and then mashed it out, how would this differ from 45 min then essentially a mash out?

In the link I posted read the Hochkurz mash, it is all in there.

[positiveContact]

In the link I posted read the Hochkurz mash, it is all in there.

hey - there are three steps there!!! ;)I don't think I'll have the water to hit that mash out (167F) - is this a problem if I just leave it overnight at 160ish F?

[cavman]

hey - there are three steps there!!! ;)I don't think I'll have the water to hit that mash out (167F) - is this a problem if I just leave it overnight at 160ish F?

Not a problem, that is what I did on my pilsner.ETA: I just try to hit mashout on my second runnings, so not really a third step.

[positiveContact]

Not a problem, that is what I did on my pilsner.ETA: I just try to hit mashout on my second runnings, so not really a third step.

that's what I typically do as well but now that I tend to overnight mash there is a big span of time between the 2nd and third steps that wasn't there before. I guess now that I think about it I've been pretty much doing a Hochkurz mash all along except fairly often my second step isn't nearly high enough in temperature b/c I don't unbalance my runnings slightly to get there.edit: also my first step lasts too long

[positiveContact]

thanks for helping me think through this by the way. I still don't get the chemistry behind what's going on but it's good to see that with very small tweaks I can use a semi-advanced mashing technique

[positiveContact]

If this seems to go smoothly maybe this will be my new mashing technique for all things german.

is there a benefit to doing a similar mash for other beers where the initial rest is at a higher temperature?

edit: graph of mash in question...

[cavman]

That is what the board is for, right?

[cavman]

If this seems to go smoothly maybe this will be my new mashing technique for all things german.

is there a benefit to doing a similar mash for other beers where the initial rest is at a higher temperature?

edit: graph of mash in question...

I do a regular mash on hoppy beers as I am trying to showcase the hops.

[denny]

It improves the overall body and mouthfeel, it also aids in head retention.

I'm not sure I could say that. I continue top gho back and forth between step mashing and single infusion to see if I can find an advantage to step mashing. So far I don't think I have.

[positiveContact]

alright - did the step mash. 149F for about 40-45 minutes followed by 162F. calling it a night and will continue tomorrow morning...