47 replies to this topic

[positiveContact]

Anyone have a good recipe? I'm looking to make a more authentic version of the bastardized mexican version we are left with today. Obviously vienna is the base and I'll probably use hallertau for hops. Staro-prague lager yeast is what I've got right now. I did a quick google search and people have some pretty awful recipes out there (1lb of crystal???? blech!) or way too light in color (only using vienna).

[Big Nake]

I usually do a combination of pilsner malt and vienna and then small amounts (like 4 or 6 ounces) of CaraVienne or CaraMunich. Hops like Hallertau, Hersbrucker, Mittelfruh, Tettnanger, etc. and maybe 2124, 2782 or 2308. It appears that Vienna water can actually be a little high in the bicarbonate department if you believe the "great brewing waters of the world" things that you see. Btw, I think some purists would say that all Vienna malt along with a decoction and a 90-minute boil might be more authentic. When you say the other recipes you see are too light in color but you don't want to use Crystal, something has to give. I'm sure that my use of Cara-anything is probably considered "not-authentic" but that's my interpretation on it.

[cavman]

I would do an all Vienna or maybe 20% Pils, any German noble hop should be fine. Mash high or step mash by infusion.

[Big Nake]

Maybe a Hochkurz mash... 142x30, then heat about 40% of the mash and get it to boiling and add it back with the goal being around 158x60. This might be closer to authentic and may also darken the color of the beer a little bit. Then do a 90-minute boil which may darken it more. Make sure you clear your calendar because this is starting to sound like a loooooooong brewday.

[cavman]

You batch sparge right and overnight mash right? If this is right I would say mash in at 148 at a 1.25/1 water to grain ratio for 45 minutes, add the amount of water needed for your first runoof to bring the temp to 160-162 and let sit overnight.

[Big Nake]

The other part is the hop schedule and for that I would ordinarily use a 60-minute addition along with a 30 or a 20 and that's it. I could see a FWH too but late hops in a Vienna are usually out of character.

[positiveContact]

I usually do a combination of pilsner malt and vienna and then small amounts (like 4 or 6 ounces) of CaraVienne or CaraMunich. Hops like Hallertau, Hersbrucker, Mittelfruh, Tettnanger, etc. and maybe 2124, 2782 or 2308. It appears that Vienna water can actually be a little high in the bicarbonate department if you believe the "great brewing waters of the world" things that you see. Btw, I think some purists would say that all Vienna malt along with a decoction and a 90-minute boil might be more authentic. When you say the other recipes you see are too light in color but you don't want to use Crystal, something has to give. I'm sure that my use of Cara-anything is probably considered "not-authentic" but that's my interpretation on it.

there's always carafa special small amounts of dark crystal seem okay to me but 1lb is going to be pretty noticable.

[cavman]

there's always carafa special small amounts of dark crystal seem okay to me but 1lb is going to be pretty noticable.

I wouldn't use crystal myself, just a touch of carafa special will add some color you might only need an ounce or two.

[MtnBrewer]

The recipe in Jamil's book is really solid. I brewed it for Telluride a couple of years ago and it was a huge hit.

[Big Nake]

The recipe in Jamil's book is really solid. I brewed it for Telluride a couple of years ago and it was a huge hit.

Care to share it in a PM? I don't have it. Or... is there a link to it?

[positiveContact]

Care to share it in a PM? I don't have it. Or... is there a link to it?

eh?

3.4 lbs Pils 3 lbs Munich 5 lbs Vienna 2oz Carafa Special II Hallertau 4%AA 60 min - 1.5oz 10 min - .5oz wlp838

[Big Nake]

eh?

Interesting. You know, of all the lager strains out there, 838 and I have not been properly introduced. I think I used it when I was an extract brewer (and not a very successful lager brewer) so my brief intro to it was probably tarnished. Sorry if I didn't know this recipe... where did that quote come from? Anyway, I was at a buddy's house and he had a Munich Dunkel on tap. This was a very nice, dark-colored beer and there was a good amount of roasty, coffee-like flavor to the beer. I asked him about it and he told me that the color and flavor came from only 4 ounces (in 5 gallons) of Carafa. This stuff must be pretty potent. I really don't care for a lot of roastiness in a beer so maybe I would be careful with this stuff but the recipe looks great and I like the idea of this lager yeast because I have no real experience with it.

[positiveContact]

Interesting. You know, of all the lager strains out there, 838 and I have not been properly introduced. I think I used it when I was an extract brewer (and not a very successful lager brewer) so my brief intro to it was probably tarnished. Sorry if I didn't know this recipe... where did that quote come from? Anyway, I was at a buddy's house and he had a Munich Dunkel on tap. This was a very nice, dark-colored beer and there was a good amount of roasty, coffee-like flavor to the beer. I asked him about it and he told me that the color and flavor came from only 4 ounces (in 5 gallons) of Carafa. This stuff must be pretty potent. I really don't care for a lot of roastiness in a beer so maybe I would be careful with this stuff but the recipe looks great and I like the idea of this lager yeast because I have no real experience with it.

I found the recipe on some other forum and I'm not sure if it's right or not. was it carafa special (dehusked)?

[Brauer]

...there was a good amount of roasty, coffee-like flavor to the beer. I asked him about it and he told me that the color and flavor came from only 4 ounces (in 5 gallons) of Carafa. This stuff must be pretty potent.

was it carafa special (dehusked)?

It sounds like he didn't use the dehusked Carafa Special, which is very mild. The regular Carafa is basically the same as Chocolate Malt. There are also 3 colors of Carafa, with the Carafa III being distinctly more roasty tasting, to me.

[positiveContact]

Interesting. You know, of all the lager strains out there, 838 and I have not been properly introduced. I think I used it when I was an extract brewer (and not a very successful lager brewer) so my brief intro to it was probably tarnished. Sorry if I didn't know this recipe... where did that quote come from? Anyway, I was at a buddy's house and he had a Munich Dunkel on tap. This was a very nice, dark-colored beer and there was a good amount of roasty, coffee-like flavor to the beer. I asked him about it and he told me that the color and flavor came from only 4 ounces (in 5 gallons) of Carafa. This stuff must be pretty potent. I really don't care for a lot of roastiness in a beer so maybe I would be careful with this stuff but the recipe looks great and I like the idea of this lager yeast because I have no real experience with it.

just reread this ken, I wasn't trying to offend or anything. sorry if it came off that way. I posted the recipe questioning if it was the right one or not...

[Big Nake]

just reread this ken, I wasn't trying to offend or anything. sorry if it came off that way. I posted the recipe questioning if it was the right one or not...

No, no... it's all good. I'm learning something new here because I hadn't seen the recipe and I've also never used any type of carafa. Not I, II or III and not special. I'm about to place an online order and I'd like to pick up some of this carafa special and I'm thinking of picking up some pale chocolate for the porter recipe in the other thread. Then I'll get some 838 and make this Vienna too! That'll bust me outta my funk!

[MtnBrewer]

Since UCCS mostly banks the Wyeast strains, I used 2308 instead of WLP838.The recipe that Studs posted is correct but keep in mind that Jamil's recipes assume a low efficiency. Adjust the grist for your efficiency to achieve an OG of 1.050. Also he mashed at 152 and did a 90 minute boil.

[positiveContact]

Since UCCS mostly banks the Wyeast strains, I used 2308 instead of WLP838. The recipe that Studs posted is correct but keep in mind that Jamil's recipes assume a low efficiency. Adjust the grist for your efficiency to achieve an OG of 1.050. Also he mashed at 152 and did a 90 minute boil.

Thanks for the info. I'm surprised how much pils and munich there is in there. Do those interfere with the vienna at all?

[djinkc]

And just to keep you off balance....14.5 gal preboil12.5 gal post boil9# Gr. Pils9# Vienna1# Melanoidin1# Crystal 801# Carapils150df mash75 min boil (nope - no DMS)2 oz Hersbrucker 2.5 AAU 60 min3 oz Tettnanger 3.2 AAU 60 min2 oz Hersbrucker 15 min2 oz Tett 15 min1.052 31 IBUsWyeast 2308 fermented at 53dfDid not enter in any comps - I refused to part with even a couple bottles

[positiveContact]

I don't have any of those hops but the recipe sounds nice. probably the limit on how much crystal I'd want.