18 replies to this topic

[SchwanzBrewer]

I have sanke kegs as kettles and when I make 10 gallon batches it is tough to lift them to the burners, so I got a march pump.Usually I just use Denny's technique for batch sparging which gets the wort clear and is pretty sound, but I have to do things differently when I use the pump. So here's what I do.1) The system is single tier.2) It's not hard plumbed so I have to disconnect hoses and reconnect to make the transfers.3) In order to get the pump to prime (and to avoid hot wort aeration) I have to open the valve on the mash tun more than usual, almost to full.This means more grains get through initially. If you are familiar with Denny's process you crack the valve open and let the grain bed set as you collect about a quart while waiting for the wort to clear, which you then vorlauf.4) Once the pump is primed I restrict the flow on its output side and recirculate the wort for a few minutes hoping it will clear. This is where I start to run into problems. I seem to get more grist in the kettle when I do this because the grain bed is constantly being irritated by the returning liquid.5) Once the wort clears (its hard to determine this with this method) I open the valve on the kettle and snap the QD from the mash tun line into place. There is only 1 valve on the kettle and it has a SS braid on the inside, so it somewhat filters the wort and does not allow as much grain into the kettle. If I try and use a longer line and pump the wort over the top of the kettle I seem to run into problems. Lots of times the wort coming out of the mash tun can't keep up with the pump even though its throttled, which causes air to get into the line and de-primes the pump.6) After the first runnings are complete I add the remaining sparge water to the mash tun and let it set for a few minutes.7) Repeat steps 4 and 5.One problem I have with this method is that I can never seem to get the right amount of wort into the kettle. I end up draining the remaining wort from the mash tun into a bucket and then dumping it into the kettle. There is also about a pint or two lost to the pump and lines.Also, I have to remember to dump a little wort from the kettle to clear the braid or else I will get a bunch of grain trying to go through my counter flow chiller.So, what would the beer forum brain trust do to improve this process?First, I know, I know, I know: fly sparging. I will eventually switch to fly sparging, but for now I want to continue to batch sparge. Whatever I do to improve the process should be cheap and simple.BFBT Go!Cheers,Rich

[djinkc]

I recirculate with a sparge arm since I fly - no grainbed disturbance. Try recirculating onto a pie pan above your mash so it doesn't mess up the grainbed. Before filling the kettle I use the pump dump valve to collect maybe a quart in a bucket. That clears the hose and pump of any grist. Then I pump into the kettle, the bucket with any grist from the pump and hose gets gently returned to the MT.I never had any luck using a braid in the kettle.

[SchwanzBrewer]

tl;drAre you vorlaufing into the mash tun directly, with a diffuser pan to settle the grain bed? There should be no reason for you to get grain material in your kettle.

Yes, no - I don't have a diffuser pan. I try and recirculate back into the mash tun as slow as possible direct from the hose.

[SchwanzBrewer]

I recirculate with a sparge arm since I fly - no grainbed disturbance. Try recirculating onto a pie pan above your mash so it doesn't mess up the grainbed. Before filling the kettle I use the pump dump valve to collect maybe a quart in a bucket. That clears the hose and pump of any grist. Then I pump into the kettle, the bucket with any grist from the pump and hose gets gently returned to the MT.I never had any luck using a braid in the kettle.

So you can divert your wort from the sparge arm and dump into a bucket. I have one valve so I would have to take the hose away from the mash tun and into a bucket for a while and then vorlauf with the bucket as I pump into the kettle.I don't have a false bottom on the kettle, and I can't whirlpool yet, so I need the braid in the kettle to keep out all the hops and hot break.

[SchwanzBrewer]

With batch sparging, you can just pump right back to the tun with that initial volume.

Which is what I do.

[beach]

By diffuser pan, I just mean like a plastic coffee can lid or the like. You want to minimize disturbing the grainbed as much as possible.

This ^ I use the lid from a 5-gal bucket.Beach

[Humperdink]

Lid from a glad tupperware container works great for a diffuser.What is your mashtun?

[chadm75]

4) Once the pump is primed I restrict the flow on its output side and recirculate the wort for a few minutes hoping it will clear.This is where I start to run into problems. I seem to get more grist in the kettle when I do this because the grain bed is constantly being irritated by the returning liquid.

If you are recirculating slowly and smoothly, and your false bottom in the MT is working properly...I don't know why you're getting grist into the kettle? Someone asked if you vorlauf and you shouldn't have to vorlauf if you're recirc'ing, correct? I recirc for about the last 45 mins of my mash and am getting clear wort after only about a minute or two. Since I've been using my stand I've never had ANY grist get into the kettle. And yes, braids SUCK when you're mashing in anything other than a cooler.

[Humperdink]

Also, i vorlauf considerably more than 1 quart, I'm more like 2 gallons a quart at a time.

[djinkc]

With batch sparging, you can just pump right back to the tun with that initial volume.

I'm doing that for a mashout/vorlauf. I still get some grain bits in the hose and pump - probable cut my slots just a bit too wide in the manifold. It's not worth it for me to change it.

[SchwanzBrewer]

Lid from a glad tupperware container works great for a diffuser.What is your mashtun?

Mash tun is a 70qt Coleman extreme with a CPVC slotted manifold.

If you are recirculating slowly and smoothly, and your false bottom in the MT is working properly...I don't know why you're getting grist into the kettle? Someone asked if you vorlauf and you shouldn't have to vorlauf if you're recirc'ing, correct?

I get grain because the bed is disturbed from the recirculation, because I have to open the valve too much to get the pump to stay primed and the returning wort flow is too strong. I need a diffuser like has been mentioned.

I recirc for about the last 45 mins of my mash and am getting clear wort after only about a minute or two. Since I've been using my stand I've never had ANY grist get into the kettle. And yes, braids SUCK when you're mashing in anything other than a cooler.

I'm gonna make a diffuser and see if that helps next time. Probably would help to practice more too. I stopped using the pump for 5 gal batches and went back to using Denny's method. The beer improved.

[bigdaddyale]

I made this dohicky to help recirculate into the mt.Hangs over the side of the mt and I can choke off the out flow with the valve.works great

[denny]

It sounds like you may need to rethink your lautering system. I've recently started using my pump to recirc and drain my tun, but I get no grain particles at all with the braid.

[bigdaddyale]

[SchwanzBrewer]

It sounds like you may need to rethink your lautering system. I've recently started using my pump to recirc and drain my tun, but I get no grain particles at all with the braid.

I may need a better manifold, smaller slots. Also, I think I need to bite the bullet and build my stand and start fly sparging, if I need a diffuser anyway, why not just go all the way.

[denny]

I may need a better manifold, smaller slots. Also, I think I need to bite the bullet and build my stand and start fly sparging, if I need a diffuser anyway, why not just go all the way.

Sounds like you're going overboard to fix a minor problem. Why not just use a braid?

[SchwanzBrewer]

Sounds like you're going overboard to fix a minor problem. Why not just use a braid?

I subscribe to Palmers method of making a mash tun manifold and I want to be able to batch or fly sparge with it. You are right though, with batch sparging all that is necessary is a braid since you are rinsing the sugar from the grain as a batch.

[denny]

You can also configure a braid in the way Palmer describes (kind of) and have the best of both worlds.

[SchwanzBrewer]

You can also configure a braid in the way Palmer describes (kind of) and have the best of both worlds.

I guess you could just use braid instead of pipe throughout the whole thing and clamp them to copper fittings. I have thought of putting braid at valve so when I tip up the mash tun to get that last bit of wort it collects a little more.I'm gonna make some changes over Christmas break and hopefully have a much more organized easier to use (on my back) system.Cheers,Rich