16 replies to this topic

[Genesee Ted]

I was planning on using some sulfites to clean up my unpasturized cider, but a friend was telling me not to because it leaves an off flavor. I have never heard of this. Any feedback?

[Genesee Ted]

Yeah, that is how I have always done it. He was so adamant though that it made me second guess myself. Thanks!

[Genesee Ted]

I noticed that that calculator asks for pH. I don't have a way to measure that right now, how much does it affect things?

[Genesee Ted]

I have Campden tabs. On the label it says 1 tab per gal makes 30 ppm. Up the dosage then huh.... That was always my dose before, 1 tab per gal

[dmtaylor]

Sulfite/Campden does add minerally flavor, at least in the sweet cider. Taste a before and after sample of your sweet cider and you'll be able to tell. To me it tastes sort of like Flintstone's vitamins. But by the time the fermentation is complete, it's all going to be reacted chemically with other things, and precipitated out, so I doubt you're going to be able to pick it out anymore. Personally I use one tablet per gallon, which works fine and with less risk of overdoing it than if I followed certain literature, which would sometimes have you adding 2, 3, or even 4 tablets per gallon. No thanks -- that just seems like way too much! I've also read that if you add sulfites at bottling time as a preservative, it doesn't affect the flavor as much as at the beginning of fermentation. There might be something going on chemically with pH or something to where it all precipitates out right away. Not sure. And yeah... if you can confirm the pH is like 3.1 or less (something like that), then most critters can't survive there anyway so you don't even need Campden. But your juice would have to be quite tart to be that low at the beginning of ferment. If memory serves, most raw juices are closer to a pH of about 3.5. Still tart, but not THAT tart.

[positiveContact]

why don't you guys just let nature take its course?

[dmtaylor]

Nature is often sweet... and can sometimes be a bitch.

[positiveContact]

Nature is often sweet... and can sometimes be a bitch.

only a sample size of 1 but the naturally fermented cider I tried was pretty damn dry! I figured this was the norm for cider of all types if you didn't back sweeten or do something to stop fermentation.

[positiveContact]

For the record, my natural fermented cider was awesome and dry. I saved the natural yeast from last year and pitched into this year's cider. This year, I sulphited because I think the guy I bought the apples from collected felled, not just picked fruit. Some were also past due.

is felled really a problem? i think it's very common to make cider from felled apples.

[Genesee Ted]

Yes and no. If the apple fell when you are picking it, that is one thing, but if it is just sitting on the ground, who knows what kinda of animal shit is sitting around. The deer go nuts for apples and apparently do not obey the advice that you don't shit where you eat. Plus other critters carrying who knows what. Plus, if the apple falls and breaks it will start to decompose quite quickly. Basically, you have to use your best judgement. As far as nature taking its course.... I have done several that have come out really nice. Like apple brut champagne. Great stuff. I guess I could still do that and it is nice to have that luxury, but I wanted to try something else I guess this year.

[positiveContact]

Yes and no. If the apple fell when you are picking it, that is one thing, but if it is just sitting on the ground, who knows what kinda of animal shit is sitting around. The deer go nuts for apples and apparently do not obey the advice that you don't shit where you eat. Plus other critters carrying who knows what. Plus, if the apple falls and breaks it will start to decompose quite quickly. Basically, you have to use your best judgement. As far as nature taking its course.... I have done several that have come out really nice. Like apple brut champagne. Great stuff. I guess I could still do that and it is nice to have that luxury, but I wanted to try something else I guess this year.

the place I'm planning on getting my apple juice from this year washes the apples and claims to be selective about what they turn into juice - like if anything looks suspect they toss the apple. this place sells raw juice so I'm thinking they would want to be careful but who knows!

Edited by StudsTerkel, 19 October 2011 - 07:28 AM.

[Genesee Ted]

In any case, the apples I used were all hand selected and washed, many of them by me personally. Back to the sulfites though... 30 ppm is not enough you think? I have never used more than 1 tab per gal. I have the Cider book but I haven't been able to locate it... SWMBO likes to "organize" my things by putting them places that I can never find

[Genesee Ted]

Schramm has not let me down in the past so that's it for the cyser. Do you think that for the cider I could get away with less?

[Genesee Ted]

I guess not really, but if there is a risk of off flavors, I would rather use less than more.

[Genesee Ted]

I found mine and read the same. Thank you for taking the time to look that up for me! In a year, remind me of the bottles I owe you and I will gladly ship them!

[realbeerguy]

For the record, my natural fermented cider was awesome and dry. I saved the natural yeast from last year and pitched into this year's cider. This year, I sulphited because I think the guy I bought the apples from collected felled, not just picked fruit. Some were also past due.

I would not use felled even if sulfited. Too much chance for nasties in the cider. Typically I have found the vitamin and sulfur characteristics in the finished cider that was sulfited.

[EWW]

50ppm Kmeta 24 hrs prepitch and pectic enzyme 12 hrs prepitch has always been my routine. No off flavors no problems. We're pressing this weekend and I will do one natural and the rest with cultured yeast....one will get the house sour blend