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You think it would be hard to clone Pilsner Urquell?


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#1 HokieTrismegistus

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 02:33 PM

I'm an ale man by history, and I figured with summer coming up, a fine euro-lager/pilsner would be awesome. It would be my first time lagering.I love Pilsner Urquell so much... how bad do you think my first attempt at making it would be? It really seems a bit like it would be unforgiving.

#2 denny

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 02:35 PM

I'd say it would be impossible to "clone" it (or any beer), but you can brew a damn fine BoPils a lot like it.

#3 HokieTrismegistus

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 02:40 PM

I'd say it would be impossible to "clone" it (or any beer), but you can brew a damn fine BoPils a lot like it.

Fair enough. P.U. is just so clean but malty and hoppy. mmm.

#4 dagomike

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 02:41 PM

With or without the skunk? :)

#5 Lagerdemain

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 02:42 PM

I'm an ale man by history, and I figured with summer coming up, a fine euro-lager/pilsner would be awesome. It would be my first time lagering.I love Pilsner Urquell so much... how bad do you think my first attempt at making it would be? It really seems a bit like it would be unforgiving.

Clone it? You can't quite get there from here, because no one has access to the same malt - they are their own maltsters. The closest I came was using 90% Belgian pils malt with 10% German Vienna malt. I tried using the Weyermann bohemian pils malt, which is the same Hanka barley variety used in making Urquell, but had very poor results (worst DMS I have EVER experienced, even after a two hour boil). I came pretty close on bitterness and hop flavor with additions at 60, 30 and 15 minutes (can't remember the exact amounts, though), and Wyeast #2278 is a great choice. I know there are supposedly two different Urquell yeast strains (D and H, can't remember which one 2278 is, 2001 being the other), but I think 2278 does just fine. White Labs 800 is another excellent choice - but I would stay away from WL802, since that finishes drier and does not leave the residual sweetness that really distinguishes Urquell from Budvar and the like. I'll look around for my hopping schedule and see if I can't dig it up and share it later.Also, soft water is an absolute must. My R/O water is just about perfect for this style.

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 02:43 PM

With or without the skunk? :)

You sure do know how to pee on a man's parade. lol

#7 HokieTrismegistus

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 02:50 PM

With or without the skunk? :)

YOU shut the hell up!

#8 HokieTrismegistus

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 02:50 PM

Clone it? You can't quite get there from here, because no one has access to the same malt - they are their own maltsters. The closest I came was using 90% Belgian pils malt with 10% German Vienna malt. I tried using the Weyermann bohemian pils malt, which is the same Hanka barley variety used in making Urquell, but had very poor results (worst DMS I have EVER experienced, even after a two hour boil). I came pretty close on bitterness and hop flavor with additions at 60, 30 and 15 minutes (can't remember the exact amounts, though), and Wyeast #2278 is a great choice. I know there are supposedly two different Urquell yeast strains (D and H, can't remember which one 2278 is, 2001 being the other), but I think 2278 does just fine. White Labs 800 is another excellent choice - but I would stay away from WL802, since that finishes drier and does not leave the residual sweetness that really distinguishes Urquell from Budvar and the like. I'll look around for my hopping schedule and see if I can't dig it up and share it later.Also, soft water is an absolute must. My R/O water is just about perfect for this style.

So what you're saying is, it's exceedingly simple?

#9 dagomike

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 02:54 PM

You sure do know how to pee on a man's parade. lol

Hey, some people like the green bottle flavor. Just asking. :)Actually diacetyl bugs me so I never made a real BoPils. Nice to have once in a while, but wouldn't want a full batch. As far as "cloning it" I thought there was a recipe in BYO from 2005, but it was heineken.

#10 boo boo

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 02:58 PM

Clone it? You can't quite get there from here, because no one has access to the same malt - they are their own maltsters.

That and a triple decoction as far as I know. The length of the decoction boil and the amounts drawn to decoct also would comeinto play I would assume as well as the rest temps.It is my fav in an import and I was disappointed with the skunk from the bottle. The loss of hop flavour from the canned versionalso was disappointing, although the beer was still great.

#11 HoppingFrog Brewing

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 03:07 PM

As long as you can keep the fermentation temp down at 50F and consistant you can do it. I love serving my pilsners to guys that do not like ales. I get the you did'ent make, can I take your keg home will you set me up with a kegerator. No! but I can teach you. What's it going to cost. ugh lets see. you mean that much. Whell did you think it was free.Well ya you just buy feed barley and do it in the bath tub. Heard this a million times . :)

#12 dagomike

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 03:11 PM

From MJ Beer Companion:sweet Bohemian barleytriple decoctionon-site springs of very soft waterthree Saaz hop additions, all whole hops2.5+ hour boilopen fermented in uncoated Bohemian Forest fermenters (probably all stainless now)Brewed using 5 different yeast strains and then blended (now only uses 2)pitch coated oak casks for lagering (again replaced with stainless)

#13 HokieTrismegistus

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 03:12 PM

So what if I do a really long mash and adjust my grain bill? I really do not feel like doing a triple decoction mash lol.

#14 brewhead

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 03:13 PM

man i do like some Pilsner Urquell. i would think saaz would be the hop through out the boil.

#15 Jimmy James

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 03:40 PM

I don't think you need to do a decoction - I don't find PU to have a particularly rich flavor. I find it more on the crisp side. Maybe they get a little sweetness from a decoction but my guess is you could get the same flavor at home by just adding 20 to 25% Vienna malt, using Pils as the rest of your grist. I think Saaz would be the way to go but I'd probably go light on the last addition if you do 3, as I don't recall PU having massive hops aroma. I think a late addition of Saaz is awesome myself, and if I was open to interpreting the style as opposed to trying to clone something I would myself go with a substantial aroma addition at flameout or just before.Finally, you could add a couple percent carapils for head-retention. Pitch a big starter. I like to brew these guys up and cool in my fridge overnight and pitch cold the next morning, then let it warm up a couple degrees into the optimal fermentation range. This is the process advocated by Jamil Z and it has always worked for me. Pitching warm and then cooling down hasn't worked so much for me. I make a gallon of starter at room temp and cold-crash it, decant and pitch and so far have been getting great attenuation which I think is what you want for this beer. Good luck, I am brewing a BoPils myself in a couple weeks and will have a hard time keeping my hands off it while it lagers.

#16 Big Nake

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 05:10 PM

Hokie: Every recipe I have seen for it suggests that it's got quite a bit of Munich in it, which would explain the maltiness. You also have Wyeast 2001 Pilsner Urquell at your disposal. I just made 2 beers with that yeast and I was trying to make a nice Czech Lager with PU as an inspiration. I wasn't trying to clone it, just get something in the zip code. In one recipe, I used Pils and Munich (to about 5.2%) and then some Hallertau Mittelfruh for bittering and then an ounce of Saaz for 10 and another ounce for 2. It smelled heavenly. The IBUs were right around 30. For the other one, I went with the same grain bill but I threw some Vienna in there too, then used Mt. Hood for bittering and more late additions of Saaz. Also, Czech water is REALLY soft so if you wanted it close, use some amount of distilled or RO water and maybe add back some calcium chloride or whatever to get the minerals back up. The yeast is very nice overall & gives off a great aroma.

#17 japh

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 05:38 PM

Hey, some people like the green bottle flavor. Just asking. :)

Which is why I never even tried it until I found it on tap once.Wasn't a fan, but my wife loved it.

#18 HokieTrismegistus

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 05:53 PM

I'm lucky enough where most times I've had it it's unskunkified for the most part.

#19 VolFan

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 06:29 PM

I had it a few weeks ago when I was in Germany. It was a damn fine drink. Something about that boat ride across the pond and sitting in warehouses...it doesn't do the beer any favors for sure.

#20 dondewey

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 06:29 PM

I bought a bunch of saaz in preparation of a big batch of pilsener. I've read Noonan's book, but I have a question on the recipe. PU is good, but I love Victory's Prima Pils. On beeradvocate they call it a "german pilsener". Could I get close with saaz? What about yeast and grain bill? The style isn't in Noonan's book, but perhaps it is known as something else? Thanks!


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