27 replies to this topic

[Big Nake]

The flaked barley is supposed to be similar to something German brewers use, Chit Malt. From an online glossary...This is one of the several tricks that German brewers use to circumvent the limitations of the Reinheitsgebot (German Purity Decree). Under the Reinheitsgebot, only water, hops, malt and yeast may be used as beer ingredients. However, unmalted barley can often produce favourable flavours and properties in beer. So maltsters sometimes begin to malt their barley, but then halt the process almost immediately so that only 1/4 of the grain is modified. The Reinheitsgebot does allow the use of this grain, since technically speaking it has been malted. By these means German brewers can take advantage of some of the desirable properties of unmalted grain, since 3/4 of the husk was not modified by the short malting period.This Chit Malt is available from a few online suppliers so it might be cool to order some and try it in a batch as opposed to the flaked barley. The acidulated malt is something that they use to help adjust the pH and that is another interesting thing in this experiment that I had not tried previously. Between those two things, plus the 142x60/decoct for 10/158x30 plus the complete omission of a bittering addition of hops, plus the all-distilled water (plus additions), I feel like I have a lot more tools in my toolbox after making this batch. I have already made a few other batches where I did some of this stuff but did a single infusion mash at 150-151° just to see what difference the decoction makes, if any. It also occurs to me that you could apply this to any number of other beer styles including Festbier, Viennas, a Red Lager and a bunch of others. I already have a pack of 2278 and one of 2001 so I can do a few variations of this beer. It's exciting to have all of these new brewing ideas, especially if the beer comes out stellar! Cheers.

[Big Nake]

Okay, so here is a wild one: I carbed this beer from Saturday morning until Monday morning and when I went to take it off the gas, I noticed that my tank was empty. I had no idea if the beer was carbed or not or to what level. This morning I took my tank over and had it filled and then I came back and just connected a picnic tap to this keg to get a feel for the carb. First of all... WOW, what a great ****ing beer this is. I'm not kidding... great flavor, great balance, great everything. I went back and checked my notes and I used the same water profile that was outlined in this thread. The beer happens to be carbed very nicely so the tank must have run out (or low) at the end of the carb session. I plan to update this thread once I have had the chance to drink more of it but right now it's in my "on deck" fridge and it will not hit the taps for awhile. The other question will be whether the decoction did anything substantial for the beer or if it just lengthened my brewday. But I have to say that all of these "off-the-map" parts of the process came together beautifully on this beer. Cheers Beerheads!

[positiveContact]

Ken, I'm not sure what you use for predicting your pH but do you have the numbers for what your mash water ended up like? I'm looking for calcium, magnesium, alkalinity as CaCO3, sodium, chloride, and sulfate. This would be worthwhile info to have for later.

[positiveContact]

Ken, I'm not sure what you use for predicting your pH but do you have the numbers for what your mash water ended up like? I'm looking for calcium, magnesium, alkalinity as CaCO3, sodium, chloride, and sulfate. This would be worthwhile info to have for later.

so I tried to simulate what you were doing on my brewing spreadsheet and it looks like my water just needs a little gypsum to get pretty close to what you've got going on there.

[Big Nake]

MashleyJ: I have my notes in front of me just to make sure that there isn't a discrepancy with what I mentioned in the other thread (somewhere on page 5 or 6). In the mash I used .5g gypsum, 3g CaCl, 3g MgS04 and then in the sparge (I know some people suggested just using all of it in the mash but I wasn't sure what it would do to the pH) I used .5g gypsum, 3g CaCl and then .4ml lactic acid which was just to keep the pH of the sparge in check... not sure if it was really necessary at that point or not. All of this was in conjunction with 100% distilled water. Final numbers came to: Ca 56, Mg 8, Na 0, Cl 87, S04 52, Alkalinity 0.I was concerned that either the lack of a bittering addition would be weird or the 2 ounces of late hops would be too much flavor/aroma but this particular combination gave me a great hop profile and very much in the spirit of what I was looking for when I first posted about this style of beer.I just took some inventory and I see that I still have 10lbs of Global Malt Pilsner, a pound of flaked barley, some acid malt and a bunch of Saaz, Tettnanger and Tradition hops. I also happen to have 2001 Urquell running and I plan to make the exact same beer (mash 142x30 then just add boiling water to get to 158x60, no decoction) and possibly use Saaz just to lean the beer towards a Czech Lager and see how it comes out. It may make the comparison a little difficult but I'd like to see how much of the beer's character came from the decoction. I also plan to order more PILS and some Wyeast 2782 Staro-Prague and do something similar maybe with a little Munich and/or Vienna thrown in.Overall, looking very forward to seeing this beer on tap. Cheers.

[positiveContact]

MashleyJ: I have my notes in front of me just to make sure that there isn't a discrepancy with what I mentioned in the other thread (somewhere on page 5 or 6). In the mash I used .5g gypsum, 3g CaCl, 3g MgS04 and then in the sparge (I know some people suggested just using all of it in the mash but I wasn't sure what it would do to the pH) I used .5g gypsum, 3g CaCl and then .4ml lactic acid which was just to keep the pH of the sparge in check... not sure if it was really necessary at that point or not. All of this was in conjunction with 100% distilled water. Final numbers came to: Ca 56, Mg 8, Na 0, Cl 87, S04 52, Alkalinity 0.I was concerned that either the lack of a bittering addition would be weird or the 2 ounces of late hops would be too much flavor/aroma but this particular combination gave me a great hop profile and very much in the spirit of what I was looking for when I first posted about this style of beer.I just took some inventory and I see that I still have 10lbs of Global Malt Pilsner, a pound of flaked barley, some acid malt and a bunch of Saaz, Tettnanger and Tradition hops. I also happen to have 2001 Urquell running and I plan to make the exact same beer (mash 142x30 then just add boiling water to get to 158x60, no decoction) and possibly use Saaz just to lean the beer towards a Czech Lager and see how it comes out. It may make the comparison a little difficult but I'd like to see how much of the beer's character came from the decoction. I also plan to order more PILS and some Wyeast 2782 Staro-Prague and do something similar maybe with a little Munich and/or Vienna thrown in.Overall, looking very forward to seeing this beer on tap. Cheers.

I guess a major diff is my Na is around 29. Not sure what affect this would have...

Edited by mashleyJwilliams, 06 July 2011 - 03:00 AM.

[Big Nake]

I guess a major diff is my Na is around 29. Not sure what affect this would have...

According to an article in BYO that I just read, adding table salt or kosher salt (as the author likes to add to pale lagers) gives the beer a mildly sweet flavor as long as the amount is 40ppm or less... after that it gives a saltier flavor. This is in the water chemistry article in this month's BYO (with the summer beers on the cover). IIRC, he said that he likes to get his NA to 10ppm so you would be tripling that.

[positiveContact]

According to an article in BYO that I just read, adding table salt or kosher salt (as the author likes to add to pale lagers) gives the beer a mildly sweet flavor as long as the amount is 40ppm or less... after that it gives a saltier flavor. This is in the water chemistry article in this month's BYO (with the summer beers on the cover). IIRC, he said that he likes to get his NA to 10ppm so you would be tripling that.

kind of makes sense since salt is a flavor enhancer.